Scandinavian DLC idea

The way I see a Scandinavian Expansion working is essentially this:

  1. Keeping the Vikings to represent Norway and Sweden, renaming them to Norse.

Yes, pretty much all 3 of the Scandinavian cultures participated in Viking/Raiding culture, but Norway and Sweden were better known for it (Norway being literally named for the Northmen/Norse whom were the ones raiding foreign shores, Sweden because Varangians were literally Eastern Vikings who originated there) One could (and judging from the other comments here, several have) argue that, with the name change, they could also now more accurately represent the broader Germanic Pagan circle, including Saxons (and later Anglo-Saxons), Early Frisians (though I still think Frisians are better represented in their own civ), and other Early Northern Germanic cultures.

  1. Adding the Danes.

While also viable as being represented under the Vikings, the Danes differed quite a lot compared to the other Norsemen in the sense that they not only spearheaded the syncreticism and later adoption of Christianity in Scandinavia, they also were much more centrally focused as a kingdom earlier than the other two Scandinavian realms, really leaning into a '“part of the group, separate in approach” theme for them. Like others have said, they could represent the High-Late Medieval Kingdom period, which arguably was the zenith of their influence given the rise of the Kalmar Union towards the end of the timeline.

  1. Adding a (Finno-) Ugric civ(s)

While people are really not keen on having more umbrella civs, there also is not a lot of good conversation surrounding even more Euro civs. So, an Ugric civ might be able to bridge the divide between the Finnish, the Sami, the Karelians, and can cover the eastern Uralic people as well if need be. This could be a very versatile way to represent the Finno-Ugric people.

Alternatively, if the consensus is that a wholly umbrellafied civ like the Ugrics is unwarranted, I guess choosing the most prominent group amongst them would be fine, but that specificity ends up causing more European bloat. Either way, this addition is the toughest to cinch.

  1. Full 5-6 Scenario Campaigns for the civs above + Slavs.

For the (now) Norse, I could see something along the lines of Harold Hardraada would be an amazing campaign to see, and it would have so much to offer during the scope of his span of time.

For the Danes, I could see either Cnut the Great (Rise of the North Sea Empire, Spread of Christianity) or Valdemar I the Great (expanded the Medieval Kingdom of Denmark to its zenith) as amazing picks for a campaign. I really can’t pick between the two personally.

For the Ugrics/Finns, I’m not entirely sure… if the civ tends more towards a specific Finnish Identity, then perhaps a campaign centered around resisting Norse expansion from Sweden and centralizing the tribes could work. I admit, I have next to no knowledge about anything to do with the Finno-Ugric peoples, so this part is the hardest for me to theorycraft.

And Lastly, the Slavs. Why Slavs in a Scandinavian DLC? Because, I feel it would be the best time to rename them to the Rus. Their campaign should follow the Nordic Rurikid Dynasty as they conquer the local Slavs, Balts, and Finno-Ugrics and, as they assimilate with one another, become the Rus.

Of course, this could conflict with a more Dynasties of India-esque approach for the Slav split, but I’d think that it would be worth it in the end. The Rus were essentially a cultural mix of Norse, Slavic, Baltic and Finnic cultures, and they have more ties to Scandinavia than they do to the rest of the wider distribution of Slavic Cultures. To me, this is the more appropriate approach to renaming the Slavs, and possibly, if necessary, they could release the rest of the (South) Slavs (Serbians, Croatians, Romanians) in a different DLC.

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No, its not one of the most underused regions. They’re all perfectly represented by the Vikings.

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I’d probably be fine with a Finnish-adjacent civ but idk if I like the name “Ugric”. Since when is it used?

Finns aren’t Norse, the same way Basques aren’t Celts.

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Finns would be a better name. Of the whole Finno-Ugric family, the Finnic half was much more present in the area adjacent to Scandinavia, Rus, etc.; Ugrics hanged out far to the east next to the Urals, only the Magyars migrated westwards.

It’d have to be both Danes and Swedes then, and the current Vikings would represent the Norwegians and the Icelandic. Add Finns and you have three new civs plus a slight rework to the existing Vikings civ (like the Inca, Indians or Chinese treatment).

Vikings (Norse): Archer and Infantry
Danes: Cavalry and Infantry (good farming eco)
Swedes: Gunpowder & Ships (good wood bonus)
Finns: Infantry and Siege (wood or stone/gold bonus)

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Hmm, why siege specifically? I’d probably give them strong trash units instead.

I don’t know. Just gameplay/balance reasons. Every civ is strong in at least two areas, more or less. But yeah you could give them great skirms instead.

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Finns probably would be the best for name recognition, and I wouldn’t necessarily be against it, but I don’t know that I like how specific it would be. I guess it would be ok in the scope of a Scandinavian DLC…

In the scope of the DLC, yeah. I was thinking the Ugric name for a more broad representation of the whole group, but yeah, I think y’all are right with this. Just kinda feels weird to me to use Finns for Karelians, Sami, Ostyaks, etc.

With respect, I wouldn’t really think of Swedes as divergent from the Norse culture during the early/high period, and judging from your bonuses for the Swedes you’re focusing hard on the late /post Medieval period, which I’d argue is already represented well in AOE3.

I don’t necessarily hate the idea of a Swedes civ, but drawing from the medieval period as a whole, it would be hard to differentiate medieval Sweden from the Norse or the Danish. I don’t feel like going for their early modern iteration works either, because I’d think that iteration of the Swedes belong in the AoE3 timeline better. It’s the same reason I prefer the Dutch in the AoE3 timeline and Frisians for 2; they peaked too late for them to make sense for this game.

Nice to see more people supporting a finnish civi ingame,back then it was only me :joy:

Finns is the best name as it has more name recognition with the modern country.

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Suomi could be a good name as well, but the series rarely uses endonyms (I think “Magyars” is the only one)

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Adding a Finns civilization : good idea !

Yes good idea to suggest a Finns civilization who can represent all the Finnics people. With this, a potential DLC with Vikings splitting will be not only about the various factions of norses kingdoms.

About naval units

Maybe in a rework the drakkar can became a regional unit replacing the Galley line with a feudal age version of the drakkar (because as the first stage of a drakkar don’t look good). This because they fit the same rile (arrow ship)

Also the caravel line can became a regional ship (but with the Galley line for the first stage because the galley look like far more a caravel than a drakkar look like the galley).

Also I think that the actual Viking civilization must keep the name of Viking, because I enjoy more to play the Viking than the Norwegian or the Norse, just because of the name and all the popular culture behind him.
And for them removing the Cannon galleon and giving them the Catapult galleon.

Huskal as a regional unit ?

In the topic about the Migration Period DLC I suggested to make the Huskarl a regional unit with start in the feudal age, see details here.

Also some regional units suggestion were made here ; Axe infantry line (replacing militia line), Hirdman line (replacing spearmen)

This because the Huskarl unit was form scandinavian origin and were brought to England by the Vikings.

I also suggested to give them in addition to the Goth to the : Saxons, Suebi, Vandals, Vikings.

What type of regional/unique building ?

Now every DLC come with a regional or unique building. According to you, what can be the best regional/unique building for a Scandinavian DLC ? (For me it’s the Longhouse, good building without adding new mechanic, just another type of house)

Longhouse

A 3x2 building who replace the house. Like the gate you can change is orientation with the mouse wheel when placing is foundation. This building provide 7 or 8 population space. (see illustration here)
We can also name her Mead hall if the name longhouse was retained for a potential Iroquois civilization.

Some civilizations can recruit militia line (or whatever regional infantry who replace them) in the longhouse.

Great hall

A building who merge barracks and stable. Here you can train infantry and cavalry. There is a building like this in Age of Mythology. Also the model of Great hall look good but I think it’s better to keep this model for the Longhouse building suggested above. For viking like military building a Scandinavian architectural set can be very good for the Barracks, stable, and archery range (the actual viking castle is very beautiful ).

Factory (trading post)

I think the best translation from the french word Comptoir in english is factory.
Vikings have famous trading post like Hedeby or Birka. This building replace the Docks.

What bonus ? :

Healing naval unit
Maybe he can heal the naval units in his range.

Heated shot technology free but available only for the dock.
Also the building can have a bonus attack against naval unit, the same bonus as Heated shot but all the civilizations with the Factory cannot research heated shot in the university.

More range than a dock
Also this building can have a little more range than a dock. A dock have 6 range, this building can have 7 or 8 range. Or Maybe 4 or 5 range but Forge upgrade increase it’s range.

More attack than a dock

Can garrison trade cog who shoot arrows

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If we get the Finns, they should get the Pulkka as a unique unit. These are reindeer-pulled sleds used by the Sami people, and I think they would be very distinct. They’d be some kind of cavalry archer, though I’m not sure what their specialty would be.

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This could be the uu as well.

That seems to be too late for the Middle Ages.

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At the very least, the UU should incorporate some form of skis/sleds, as they were well utilized in the region.

Perhaps they could have a speed boost going downhill?

That might be a bit too gimmicky and potentially buggy.

In any case, this diorama of a ruined wooden castle might make for a good basis for their Castle. I looked at other more period-appropriate castles in Finland, and they just don’t stand out quite as much.

Yew bows were used when?

Bows continued to be used during the early modern period. They weren’t phased out immediately after guns became commonplace.

Karelians belong to the Finnic branch of the family, not Ugric; the Sami have their own branch, but closer to Finnic than Ugric.

Ugric peoples like Ostyaks and Voguls could get their own civ later on, could be called Yugrans or Yugorians.

I doubt anyone would be using bows in large scale combat during 1787.

This is not a bad idea,it gives the whole santa vibe too.