Seljuk turks crosover civ between Otomans and Ayyubid dynasty

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
1

I had this Idea for a new civ for a while but I finally managed to work it out. Seljuk Turks a variant civ of Otomans however the difference is that instead of having landmarks they get House of Wisdom. In the house of wisdom they get all the standard wing upgrades just like Ayyubid’s have with a small change to their effects. For example:

  • Culture Wing:
    • Logistics instead of granting 2 Dervishes they get 3 imamms with healing aura of 3 hp/s
    • Advancement is the same
  • Economic Wing: -
    • Growth instead of orchards growing by 50 or 100 the same effect is applied to sheep under the town center or mill. However the effect is not immediate the sheep fatten over time. so if taken in age 2 the sheep will get 250 or 300 in age 3 and even 400 in age 4 if you manage to hold out that long without using them.
    • Industry: Economic buildings are cheaper by 30 40 or 50% depending on age and you get resources the same as Ayyubid.
  • Military Wing:
    • - Master Smiths: Blacksmiths improve production of military buildings by 30% 40% or 50% depending on the age you get this. Otherwise the standard is 20%
    • Reinforcement: same except you get Sipahi instead of desert raiders.

Finally we get to trade wing which is not available at all. Instead you get the option to Revolt and the cost depends on the age: age 2 : 250 from every resource age 3: 400 from every resource Age 4: 700 from every resource. When you revolt your villagers turn to Ghulāms. Another thing which changes when you revolt is the Vizier points system restarts and changes and lets you pick another 5 points if you used them all before you revolt. The last but not least thing that will change when you revolt is the whole civ becomes Ayyubid dynasty civ altogether. This means they get all of their units, house of wisdom wing picks (The ones you did not used yes you do get the trade wing too). However you are saying goodbye to the ottoman units and military schools. However the ones you have built they remain in play but if you lose them you can not rebuild them since you are now effectively Ayyubid dynasty. On the other hand you get new vizier options which I will let you guys discuss if you want. What do you think about this new civ??? is it going to be fun to play??? A civ that can turn into other civ mid-game.

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Regarding your proposals, I feel some would be better suited for Abbasid, or even Ayyubid. In fact, the Abbasid culture wing “should” produce Imans upon its creation.

That said, there are many things that can be discussed.

About the Seljuks

As far as I know, the Seljuks originated from a Turkic tribe that invaded the Middle East and seized much of what was the Abbasid Sultanate.

While they controlled Baghdad, it was really a puppet government. In fact, the Abbasids would later rebel and revive the dynasty until the Mongol invasion (1118–1258).

I feel there are many ideas that could be applied to the Seljuks besides simply copying the Abbasid mechanics or a scaled-down version of the Ayyubid ones (these have 4, the Ayyubid have 8). For example:

Iqta’ Army

Islamic feudalism, with the difference that instead of nobles with hereditary lands, officials, called Muqti, were employed in temporary positions. In fact, instead of receiving a salary, they received a share of the collected taxes. This meant that if an official wanted to increase their pay, they had to improve the level of development in the area they served.

The Iqta system existed previous to the Seljuks. They add to the system the necessity of recruit and train soldiers, which fell under the Muqti’s responsibilities. This would be a precursor to the Timarior system and the Ottoman Sipahi system.

Nizamiyehs

The Seljuks created a system of madrasas in many cities of the empire, with a great curricule in law, administrations, arts, mathematics, medicine, military affairs, economics. They established one in Cairo, Alexandria, and Baghdad, as well as in other cities.

The goal was to bring administration to every corner of the empire and also to combat Ismailism. Ah, it’s better to talk about Ismailism.

Ismailism (its enemies)

Ismailism was a sect that believed in blessed Imams whose word was superior to that of any vizier or sultan. To ensure this word was fulfilled, it was necessary to MURDER anyone who did not believe in it, even if they were other Muslims, viziers, or sultans. They also believed that the Quran contained secret codes, and only the “chosen” members of the sect could decipher them; the rest of humanity could not and had to obey the sect leaders. They were the creators of the term “Assassin,” derived from their leader “Assassin al-sabbadh.”

The Seljuk Empire was their mortal enemy, and in fact, Nizam al-Muk, the Seljuk vizier, created madrasas precisely to teach people the opposite of Ismailism: to trust the state, to love their country, to not commit terrorism or political assassinations, to spread Islam, and not to keep secrets as if it were something esoteric.

In fact, it is believed that he was assassinated for being such a staunch critic of this sect.

Turkish Troops

The Seljuk Sultanate was particularly known for its Turkish horse archers. They were capable of the Parthian shot, and in fact, they used this technique to defeat the Byzantine-Roman army at Mazinkert.

Interestingly, you play as the Selyuks in the first and second campaign levels of Sultan Ascend, and their unique unit is the Turkish Horse Archer.

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They could also have some kind of “Clan” cavalry unit. The Mongols started this idea, so it could work well for this civilization (Mangudai was actually a clan, as was Torgut, and if there are Timurids in the future, we might see the Bahadur).

In this case, they would have the Oghus Rider or the Oghus Lancer.

About the Revolutions

While I like the new mechanics, I don’t think the idea of ​​a Revolution is good in this case.

Generally, in AoE3, revolutions make sense if there was a “Colony” that wants to rebel to create a new country with its own population.

But in the case of Seljuk, the Ayyubid revolution was not a revolution of the Seljuk civilization itself, but rather a new kingdom formed by Saladin’s dynasty in favor of the Kurds, and it began in Egypt, not in the Turkish steppes.

About Landmarks

If you want to continue with the idea of ​​"a single Landmark," it doesn’t have to be the House of Knowledge; it could very well be, as I say, a “Nizamiyehs.” The one in Baghdad was, in fact, known as the “largest university in the world at that time,” so it would stand out quite a bit. As a novelty, it could have other wings, not necessarelly military-economic-culture-etc.

Nizamiyya of Baghdad (Iraq) by fitore on DeviantArt dgbt24h-6b36460e-5b45-4438-a2c6-32f5d3dfb021
Nizamiyya of Baghdad (Iraq) by fitore on DeviantArt dgbt24h-6b36460e-5b45-4438-a2c6-32f5d3dfb0211792×1024 1.64 MB

4 Likes
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Yes, this is what I meant. Only history is not my strong suit so I leaned towards game mechanics. For example about the revolution mechanic It would not have to be called revolution at all, again I don’t know the appropriate word for that time period so maybe Holy War, Jihad something like that but the mechanic should be the same you start with one civ and turn into something else that would be a key element. Also the imperial council should be different too. If you turn all your villagers into soldiers there should be an easier way to get some back. Ayybids already have the growth option of getting extra villagers which will fit nicely here. Also there should be a vizzier option of getting at least 7 more vils. Lets call it call of the faithful LVL 2 you get 7 vils instantly and vills can carry relics and convert. I love the idea of different landmark too like the golden tent it will represent the uniqueness of this civilization.

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The Seljuks are indeed Turks. After the Turkic Khaganate collapsed, the Oghuz who migrated to the region around the Aral Sea founded the Oghuz Yabgu State there. The Seljuk state was founded by Seljuk Bey. Seljuk Bey was an important commander of the Oghuz Yabgu State. He separated from the Yabgu State with those loyal to him and migrated south. The Oghuz Yabgu State was the last Turkic state that adhered to the Tengri belief. So even though the Seljuks adopted Islam, they did not immediately become sedentary. At first, they were still nomadic. They destroyed the Ghaznavids, who were the regional power of the time, and they also eliminated other countries in the Persian region. Their armies were a continuation of the nomadic Turkic military tradition. Therefore, comparing the Seljuks to the Ayyubids or the Abbasids would not be accurate, because they had no connection to Arabs or Kurds. In my opinion, the Seljuks should appear as an original civilization. If they are to appear as a variant, the only option would be the Ottomans.

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However they were succeeded by the Ayyubids in longer period of time according to the wiki. In some parts of the empire. Plus they’ve already seized control of the territory that belonged to the Abbasid Sultanate. So as a game mechanic is plausible to say the least. Otherwise they should have separate feel and unique units as it is with the other variant civs naturally. Im not saying that they decided to change banners, all of the sudden, but just as a game mechanic it would be ok, maybe similar to ageing up. We dont wait for centuries to pass when we age up do we. This could be similar mechanic that is all.