Should Houfnice blast radius be further reduced by 0.05 or 0.1 tiles?

Bohemians are weak in open maps, but they are borderline oppressive in closed maps. Houfnice, HC, Hussite Wagons (All three affected by Castle age UT) along with great eco and full monk tree, with potential for trash monks, make them super deadly.

No, Houfnice are fine.
Sorry to tell you, but there are a lot of strong different BBC in the game and houfnice isn’t the clear “strongest” of them at all. Portuguese, Turks, Burgundians…
A lot of civs have really strong BBC.


Bohemians are already nerfed in closed maps
If you want to nerf civs in closed maps focus on Poles and Turks (Both which have the highest WR on closed maps alone).


Houfnice needs a nerf, the only thing counters is Turks BBC and BBT (It needs godlike micro to work still) Other than that, in every regard Houfnice is much better than Turks BBC. It has no counters combined with Halbs (Or HC or Skirm).

Adding a 13 range Onager to the game says a lot about the devs’ incompetence.

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Eh, strong units are fun; I’d rather raise the bar of civs/units that are not that good before nerfing everything that is good.
I just came out of a game where I, as Dravidians, faced Bohemians on a closed map, and yes, the thought of Houfnice being OP definitely crossed my mind several times. Eventually I was able to eke out a win (mainly due to having better trash + production), but definitely lost a lot of BBCs to the greater range, damage, and splash of the Houfnice.
At least in that matchup though, that’s more a factor of Dravidians still being fairly weak vs. siege and lacking usable cavalry (still think they should get Siege Engineers and Husbandry).

Maybe it does need some kind of nerf though (maybe become a full on UU rather than an upgrade, and be trainable at Castles? or lose 0.05 splash?), but again, I’d prefer strengthening the weak before crippling the strong.

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Bohemians are fine now. Turks/Poles are arguably one tier better than Bohemians in closed map, and leaving these civs and nerfing Bohemians make not much sense.
Now Turks Artillery BBC is much cheaper to get it and better. I think giving back stone cost of artillery for Turks can be fine nerf for closed map.


I wouldn’t say they’re OP any more at least, nerfing them further makes the unit simply obsolete. What’s the point of upgrading it when it gives marginal improvements?

That’s literally their defining feature, having strengths in the late game is why they are oppressive, finish the game earlier. There are several other gunpowder civs you can also say are ‘oppressive’. Hussite Wagons are such a terrible unit as well, so IDK why that’s even mentioned. They’re even clunkier to use than Rathas!

Added damage is nice and all, but lacking Siege Engineers definitely pulls them out of competition. I think people overestimate BBC when you miss SE. And even then, I’d probably rather have Spanish BBC (faster moving cannonballs) than Burgundians (somewhat irrelevant damage unless against certain unit HP breakpoints like Arbalests, but without SE you’ll get outmicro’d and sniped).

Portuguese Bombard Cannons with Arquebus are good vs Houfince.

Hussite wagons are indeed fairly bad, and their gimmick of halving damage is quite hard to use. Rathas, I continue to think, are underrated, but Bengalis certainly still need some general buffs. Rathas may need greater accuracy and smaller hit boxes though.

I’d have to double check, but 95% sure they just fire faster (shorter reload time), which is still great. AFAIK the only Spanish unit with faster projectiles is Cannon Galleon.

So, at most Turks and Port can counter them. Then what about the remaining 39 civs?
Maybe, Houfince on it’s own isn’t strongest but combied with Habs HC Monk BBT etc are much better than port or turks any day.

My point was that they’re clunky! The two attack modes essentially separating the two units meaning you can’t double click to select all of them, while also trying to micro both of them at the same time is just a headache. Minus points for essentially hard-dying to plain Skirmishers.

I could’ve sworn I also saw BBT cannonballs moving faster so I also assumed the same is true for BBC, however faster firing is also preferable to damage increase, IMO.

Maybe don’t let them get to post-Imperial? I’d also prefer Turk lategame composition to Bohemians, who are almost generic outside of Houfnice, compared to Portugal (100% accuracy gunpowder, better BBT) or Turk (Hussar + Cav Archer + better BBT and comparable BBC).

Not every civ is meant to have an answer for every situation. What’s Aztecs meant to do on a water map against Italians? What’s Chinese or Vikings meant to do on BF against Celts or Mongols?

Bohemians’s main powerspike is Chemistry Crossbows and/or Houfnice in Imperial, you have time to make something happen before that. You’ll be favoured as some civs and not as some others, so what. Not all civs are equal in all situations. Cavalry civs are usually not as favoured in Arena, for example.


I suppose. I’m a big fan of cav archers in general, so I take the Ratha’s pike/skirm weakness for granted, and see a lot of upside in being able to switch to melee, even at the cost of a little speed. But of course this is a unit that will be more favored by micronerds, and I can see how it would be frustrating for many since it takes a lot of management to use optimally.
Hussite wagon is definitely clunky in a way that doesn’t provide such an upside, so I think some tweaks would be justified.

IMO any civ with BBC +SE at least stands a fighting chance, and many of them have units that are better than Bohemians’ other lategame options, which can make the fights less one-sided.

Bohemians is fine. Time to nerf Turk


In closed maps only. They need open map love though