Should Husbandry be used as a lever to give distinctive weakness/personality for more civ(or for balance)?

Basically the same way some other important tech like Bracer are used(8 civ lack Bracer)

The lack husbandry made Vietnamese’s a lot more interesting and tactical. Even without husbandry and Blast furnace, cavaliers still saw plenty of play. Since none of their option was overly powerful there was plenty of variety in gameplay.

The Teuton also use husbandry to add personality, although lacking both Bracer and Husbandry feels kinda bad at times and there isn’t as much gameplay variety because of that.

In Dravidian/Viking’s case it mostly make their bad cavalry extra bad rather then add flavor.

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Some candidate for losing husbandry:

Chinese, Currently they lack any clear weakness, with a powerful early eco that never falls off, a crazy strong late game (with FU Cavalier + Arbalest and their OP castle unit) which they can easily get their FU counter units (Halb, Camel, Skirmisher) and cheap tech switch. Feels like their only weakness is BBC and onagers. Making could help reign them down since right now they are a bit too good at everything.(also nerf Chu Ko Nu, 14+4*3 attack is too much. Other older OP UU like Mameluke and Mangudai got nerfed, they should too)

Korean, their cavalry is already quite bad, missing Plate Barding Armor, Blast Furnace and Bloodline. They could exchange any of those for Husbandry.

Any Battle Elephant Civ. One of suggested way to balance Battle Elephant was to increase their move speed by 10%, then remove husbandry from some of them. I don’t think this fix the balance issue with Elephants but I also don’t think any of the Elephant civ absolutly need Husbandry.

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Vietnamese have Husbandry for last 3 and half years.

Big disagree. Without husbandry they won’t have any play, not even in Team Games where the only setting they are seen.

On topic, I also don’t know why so many civs have Husbandry. Practically they are available to more civs than squires. I really think this should have been the opposite.

The idea was to increase Battle Elephant base speed by around 10%(so 0.835 speed), Khmer speed bonus could be removed, and the speed of any civ Elephant can be adjusted with Husbandry to become like that of the khmer, UU can receive specific adjustment as well. I’m particularly advocating for it since I don’t think it would fix the reason why Battle Elephants are bad, but I think it’s something that could be done.

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Okay. BE is not affected I guess. But without husbandry late game raiding will be very bad for those civs. Specially when you see half of the BE civs have very bad light cavalry.

I like the idea of chinese losing husbandry

Cav archers will be better vs them. Kinda historically accurate with the mongols. And nerfs them slightly

Though onagers could be even more of a problem if its even harder for light cav to snipe

Teutons have a stellar tech tree in Imperial, the main issue is that they are predictable in Castle age where basically their only strat is boom with a few Knights. In Imp they have HC, FU BBC, Paladin, more than FU Halbs, Onager… you can even play Ironclad Capped Rams which don’t melt to Villagers, so you can do a classic Halb Ram BBC. Once gold runs out you might be in trouble with Teutons but rly they are one of the better civs late game.

There is no need to nerf Vietnamese, they are a mid tier civ mostly carried by their eco bonus, their tech tree is actually incredibly average.

Chinese are also hard to play (and I don’t mean in the sense of getting your start straight). They have a wide tech tree, but also no clear unit choice to default into, since their units are just FU, they have a good start, but you REALLY need to geta lead in Feudal or Castle because your Imp falls off like crazy (you dismissing “meh they just lack BBC” is like saying #### ##at person is just missing a heart, they will be fine"). If you are on even terms as Chinese vs most civs in Imp, they aren’t average, we are probably talking about a bottom 10 Imp age civ, you can’t really play archers, FU Cavalier is unspectacular past early Imp, their trash is less than ideal due to lacking Hussar. Your best unit in Imp assuming no infinite gold, is the Halb and that’s not very spectacular. Also, their UU isn’t “OP”. First time I saw someone call Chu Ko Nu OP. Dies to Onager (which you should be making vs Chinese in Imp), Skirms, mass Hussars.

In general: Husbandry is a bit like Iron Casting, in the sense that it’s a tech that everyone should have and you click to get a lead. Removing it risks only creating annoying gameplay, for example take it away from Chinese and suddenly #### ####### them with CA spam (Camel funnily becomes useless as an early counter unit to CA also).

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I’d say Gurjaras should eb the #1 candidate to lose Husbandry. There are several reasons -

  1. Those extra melee armored camel and EA should have come with less speed just like Teutons cavalry.
  2. I don’t know why S.Rider need to have Cobra Car speed.
  3. The Armored Ele and Siege Ele with double the effect of SE needs more nerf.
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