Should the Spanish receive a buff?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
21

I think that might be a bit much with it affecting barracks/stables/archery range/siege workshop

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22

You are basically halving the building times, before late castle age, this wouldn’t have that big of an impact in my opinion, since the cost of the building is your biggest limit.

Instead, you can better capitalize on the time saved to have your vills gather resources.

Yeah, your drush and scouts rush will start a bit sooner, but it’s not like you will be faster than mongols or franks, to name a few.

23

I have some options, but honestly I dont think they are very good:

  • Give them crossbow (considering we have Bulgarians now thres really no strong need of removing crossbows from Spain anymore since they have a pretty good identity already and they would clearly not be OP)
  • Free cavalry armour upgrades replacing the old blacksmith bonus (I honestly dont like this one either particulary with knights, but honestly it may be fine)
  • Give them a random eco bonus (like cheaper military buildings, castle age costing no gold or something like that)
24

So what will be the first TC though? 30% or 0%? 0% means it will be a nerf in nomad style maps - probably the only map where Spanish is an S tier civ.

To be fair that’s actually true. But you’re saving 100 gold in feudal (most likely you’re on your way to castle) is not bad. Also don’t forget dock techs. 150 from Careening + 250 from Dry Dock + 400 from Shipwright = 800 total. Not too big but worth to mention.

Not possible because DM exists. It’ll be a disaster for that setting. Also devs remove Treadmill Crane from some civs just for DM only. And Spanish 30% is already better than Treadmill.

25

Goldless BS upgrades and villagers building 30% faster, with Crossbow any drush FC will be so smooth with that gold savings and then it would be just OP. With Bulgarians this could be even worse with the blacksmith bonuses and free militia line upgrades.
An example, Tatars had the free sheep at feudal with 50% more food each other, they don’t have arbalest but free Thumb Ring and hill advantage. Back then they were way too OP due to that free food and the wood savings.

26

150 in gold savings on early castle. I really dont see it being OP at all, just pretty good. Its much much worse than Vietnamese for example

27

That gold saved means you click up castle earlier and also mass archers at feudal age faster, is just too snowbally.

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28

You save only 50 gold in feudal. You cant age faster, and getting one extra archer is much worse than Mayans and Portos

29

In castle age is pretty strong, but as a civ missing an eco bonus im pretty sure it will be fine

30

Very useless buff, Spanish don’t even get Crossbows

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32

They just need to revert the stupid tower nerf and Spanish will be fine.

33

Spanish are fine, they have alway been fine are before the conqs nerf they were never considered bad before de. Dont need to endlessly buff all civs until eventually all have an eco bonus becyie of you don’t the civs sucks?

Better nerf Frank’s and other top tier civs instead down to the level of Spanish

34

First TC would be normal 30% faster, every next one (only if first stands!) Would be +60%

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35

Extending the gold discount from blacksmith to university is probably the safest option and if you want to barrack, range and stable. Messing with the build time is just a disaster of imbalancement waiting to happen in standard or DM. You also have the option to revert Spanish back to being 100% conq by removing the skirm buff vs them. Skims aren’t really a hard counter but do the job vs conqs slow 1 castle production

36

They have almost fully upgraded cav archers plus a full suite of gunpowder, both of which would benefit from ballistics/chemistry being cheaper.

37

Without mentioning that a fast imperial as Spanish would be really viable.

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38

If military buildings and stone structures remain 30%, it won’t be that big of deal in DM. In standard settings houses, farms, drop off buildings, market, blacksmith, university and monastery built 60% faster won’t be a disaster at all. I think most important building is house here. You can build a house in 16~ seconds instead of 25. Saving 9 seconds per house won’t be that great, just a little boost to their time savings on construction.

39

Both CA and HC are never used as spanish, since without an eco bonus that allows them to mass/age up faster, they aren’t that good.

What instead spanish have, are conquistadors, which are way better than CA or HC and fill both role, and don’t need neither ballistics or chemistry.

Spanish have just 3 options basically:

  • Castle drop into conqs
  • Monk and siege push
  • Knight rush

And in feudal they can go for scouts, since archers aren’t really recommended


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40

Spanish archer rush can often surprise your opponent. Sometimes, the opponent do not prepare for an archer rush.

41

But it does not have any follow up. Kind of an all in strategy. If you really caught your opponent surprise, good strategy. Otherwise you are the one that will suffer. Also if your range is scouted, they can prepare and won’t be surprised.