Should the Steppe Lancer line be changed entirely?

Interesting idea for a cav unit, but a Light Cavalry unit dealing bonus damage to heavy infantry is weird!

Better give attack bonuses against light infantry, viz Spearmen and eagles.

yeah sorry, not a fan of adding even more armor classes to the game.

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Sorry for not knowing that you don’t know these 2 armor classes already exist since AoC

no. light infantry and heavy infantry armor classes don’t exist.
the spearman and eagle armor classes do exist.

sorry you think that heavy and light are infantry armor classes in the game.

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I didn’t say the “light infantry” armor class. See at the top of the post. Steppe Lancers are Light Cavalry units. This doesn’t mean this armor class exists.

and light and heavy infantry doesn’t exist either.
Create Man-at-Arms (Cost: 60F 20G)

All-purpose infantry unit. Strong vs. buildings and infantry. Weak vs. archers at long range.
Create Spearman (Cost: 35F 25W)

Anti-cavalry infantry unit. Strong vs. mounted units, especially elephants. Weak vs. archers and infantry.
Create Eagle Scout (Cost: 20F 50G)

Fast infantry for scouting and raiding. Resistant to conversion. Strong vs. Monks and archers. Weak vs. Men-at-Arms and cavalry.
these are all labeled as infantry. not light. not heavy. just infantry.

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Yeah man it’s pretty obvious that AoE3 has rubbed off a bit here in use of terms, but also obvious which units would be light or not, judging on armor, attack and appearance :man_shrugging:

Or woman of course :flushed:

But just as hje said, they can be referred to as ‘light’ in a historical sense even without a specific ‘light’ class ingame

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Heavy - general purpose, heavy attack, heavy melee armor, more HP = focussed more on fighting in open field

Light - special purpose, low attack, low melee armor, less HP = focussed more on raiding or a special purpose

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yeah - sorry - but the concept of using a two handed swords as a trained soldier in battlefields isn’t exactly something that was commonplace at all in the medievil ages.

funny because spearman/pikeman were incredibly common in the middle ages, especially in open fields. but here you try to attribute that to “heavy infantry” - which isn’t true at all.

Armies became focused on cavalry and less on archers => Pikemen became more common

Indeed. I think in terms of army compositions, it’s almost pointless to talk about historical accuracy in AoE2. No one would have sent out a bunch of crossbowmen as it is sometimes done in AoE 2. Pikemen largely dominated the battlefields, and they were not nearly as useless against infantry in general as they are in AoE2.

Scratch that, historical accuracy in AoE2 is mild at best. When did anyone ever opt for housewalls? Or a quick blacksmith behind the wall to keep the knights out? but the game’s funky logic is what we secretly all love it for :wink:

On topic/circling back to my older idea. I’d also hope that this unit would become viable in team games, where it’s very common to pick archer civs. A good mobile anti-archer unit could maybe make this kind of play a bit less obvious to go for.

Fun fact:
Pikemen were historically Heavy Infantry, not Light Infantry. Pikemen were heavily armoured line holders that defended from direct charges, and advanced on the enemy in close formation.
This is the role of Heavy Infantry.

Light Infantry were Skirmishers, Berzerker Warbands, Peasant Conscripts and other forms of units which were not expected to be involved in prolonged fighting in the frontline, or take the brunt of a charge, but instead circle around the enemy or harrass convoys and reinforcements, before retreating behind obstacles or Heavy Infantry.

A good rule of thumb is:
-If the role is to hold in formation and recieve punishment, or slowly advance on a prepared enemy, it is Heavy Infantry.
-If the role is to damage, hobble or cripple the enemy, with minimal loses, and retreat before retaliation, it is Light Infantry.

While that is true 40 Mongolian Steppe lancers (arguably the best of the bunch) vs 30 generic knights is still a fairly even fight that can go either way depending on how the engagement is taken (39 vs 30 would actually be balanced ressource wise). In Imperial age the same number of Tartar Steppe lancers (again bzy far the best of them) slaughter cavalier and in the best case scenario of proper stop micro and the enemy just patroling dumb into you can even beat Paladins. So I actually have to agree. Steppe Lancers are not THAT terrible IF you can get into high numbers. The problem is that before that basically anything will just kill steppe lancers. So I guess after a slight buff they can be somewhat of a situation as with Crossbow vs Cav archer, where one is only effective when being massed. Though the problem here is that Cav archers are easy to keep alive while steppe lancers arent.

But the Spearman armor class exists next to the infantry armor class.

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Nice fact (and one i already knew of). When did I claim otherwise?

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A lot of people I come accross, seem to think Pikemen were Peasants conscripted and given a Pike, which is wrong, because Pike warfare is heavily dependant on professional drilling and discipline enough to rather die than break formation.

I really do come accross a lot of people, on the Internet, taht really believe this, because of things like Hollywood’s over-enfatuation with Swords, or AoE2 having Pikes as a Trash unit.

In fact, if your main weapon was a Sword, it was more likely you were just local miltia (Police, basically) or a bourgeois city-dweller that had been flash-conscripted, since Swords and Dueling were popular in cities with a rich Merchant class, that wanted to play Nobility.

Conscripted peasants were usually given Spears and Shields, or even Crossbows, not Pikes.

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I would like to see scouts or light cav with 1 range to stop quickwalling and steppe lancers with 2 range to stop even house walling.
Of course the dps of the units should be adjusted accordingly

And steppe lancers could get an attack bonus vs vills, too.

That would make a lot of people rage quit… good April’s fools idea though :smiley:

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Villagers have no specific Armour Class, so bonus damage vs them is impossible.

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Plus it was already annoying enough when Burgundians were new… everyone oneshotting vills with Coustilliers :smiley:

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I’m talking more about 3-shotting vills with non elite and 2-shotting with elite ones.
It would push steppe lancers more into the raiding unit into main force, comparable to cav archers, but as a melee unit and the ups and downs of being melee instead of pierce.
I think it’s also the only solution for the steppe lancer cause they only become a strong main force if you have a yuite big mass of them - standard buffing them is always risky as it could just lead to the state they were before the nerf.

(Cav) Archers: Am I a joke to you?