So with the upcoming second edition of the Red Bull Wololo Empire Wars cup, I went along and played some Empire Wars myself and boy was it some good fun, it completely changes the dynamic of the game and gave me some much needed variety.
Though I really like the recent changes to the ranked queue with the “favourite map ban system” the change to fewer more frequently changing maps had also a massive downside for me:
The removal of both, Mega Random and Nomad as permanent options from the 1v1 queue.
So I finally were able to have a favourite map, yet my favourite maps were removed.
Now, why did I like these maps? Because they were different, they did change up buildorders, they gave the need to adapt and they were just refreshingly messy a lot of times.
Right now I feel like the 1v1 queue is getting a bit stale. Yeah, I also like the current map pool, it consists of quite nice maps atm, but they are still all very similar to each other and I am longing for variety.
So my first point is, that it would be really nice to increase the size of the map pool again, two have these two maps as permanent candidates (maybe Arena or Black forest as well, as these have big communities, too).
My other point is: Empire Wars is a new mode, it got introduced with DE and has now two tournaments from a huge organizer, it is a really fun mode to play, that also helps out bringing Civs into the meta that usually are very lackluster in 1v1s, because they lack a dark age economy bonus.
Would people be up for having a separate queue for Empire Wars? Would it split the RM community too much? Could it maybe be introduced as just a single map in the RM map pool? It basically is just a different start, such as Nomad, Steppe and Mega Random are different starts, too. Though I guess the same argument could be made for Deathmatch, which does play out vastly different as well.
I do think that the map pool is never good for everyone. So you will always have complaints. You like some maps, others hate them. And you will never agree on this. I think the current way in which maps are picked for the map pool is fine and wont really need a change. I do hope we will see maps like Nomad and MegaRandom at some time back in the map pool for some weeks.
I do like a seperate ladder for empire wars. It wont hurt RM, i think. Only thing to consider is the following: Is it popular enough so a own ladder is worthwhile? If not, it wont be a success at all. At this moment, EW isnt played frequently in the unranked lobby either.
Sure, i’m fully aware it will never be perfect for everyone. However, I feel that nomad and mega random are a bit unique, as they are the most different form the other maps, bringing in more variety. I also was suggesting to keep Arena or Black forest in the queue, although I always ban them. Especially because everyone prefers different maps I would suggest to have at least one popular map for each very distinct play style in the map pool.
I don’t hate the current map pool, but I wish there was a bigger variety in play styles possible.
I feel like the target audience for Empire Wars would be people that prefer competetive play. These would right now probably rather play ladder than lobby matches. So it might hurt RM as well. But yeah, it might very well be possible that there are not enough players for the mode. However, I believe that all those people that currently complain about the walling meta(which are plenty) would very much welcome EW, as the matches are more fast paced and there isn’t necessarily time to full wall before the agression starts.
A map pool with
20% open land, 20% close land, 20% open hybrid, 20% close hybrid, and 20% water/migration maps.
Remove the ban buttons. Make sure everybody is forced to enjoy various maps.
If people try to dodge specific maps, they shall get those maps forever until they finish the games properly. If they continuously dodge maps, their accounts shall be permanently banned.
Nomad should have a separate queue.
Empire War could have a separate queue.
Remove the preferred map button which has ruined all the fun of matchmaking. Just show the casual ELO in the lobby and let the people only play one map stay in the lobby comfortably.
I think that’s a terrible idea. I don’t 100% like that you will get the preferred map of your opponent, if you don’t pick a preferred map, but besides that I really like that I can give a preference that actually matters.
Why would you want to force others to play something they don’t want? I dont understand how that would possibly be a good idea?
It might works fine in 1v1. But it is useless in TG.
And there are too few hybrid and water maps.
It is a very big problem.
Now people like hybrid/water maps are forced to always play land maps
This game need a map pool with true variety.
A map pool with proper propotion of different types of maps.
20% open land, 20% close land, 20% open hybrid, 20% close hybrid, and 20% water/migration maps.
Very fair!
Please stop hating water maps.
Show the casual elo in the lobby and the people who only want to play Arabia can find peace there. Everybody will be happy.
I was hoping for empire wars arena in the rm 1v1 and teamgames mappool.
A hole new queue on a second trough would maybe cause too long queues. Even in leago of legends alternative game modes died like 3v3 and dominion. We should learn from that. Further ranked queues should be avoided.
If people don’t like it they can ban it, if they love it set preferred map.
I was thinking about that, too though it should be on Arabia, not arena. There isnt really any point in Empire wars on Arena. That’s basically just a regular Arena game that starts 10 minutes earlier.
However, I would be wondering if it is not too different from random map to have it in the same queue. I mean, I personally would be fine with it, but on the other hand I would not like a Death match map to be in my random map queue, as it is just a very different game, so maybe a lot of people would feel the same, and not be able to cope with the much faster start.
Even in leago of legends alternative game modes died like 3v3 and dominion.
Yeah, we should learn from that and not unnecessarily delete less played game modes.
I had that experience with LoL and also with Guild Wars and I have not seen a single game where I understood the point of deleting them. Sure, people did not play them as much, and the game was not as balanced around them. But I have not played any game yet where those alternative game modes would be so dead you could not play them anyways, or so horribly balanced you would not be able to have fun with them. There never was any cost attached to have them as an option. I used to play these modes ocassionally and never found major issues with them. So actually I do not think there is any lesson to learn from that.
leage of legends did for me together woth the original 3v3 map back in 2012(?). SO removing stuff is always bad, better not introduce it in the wrong way in the first play.
Like you said, empire wars arena is kust like the regular with the boring first 10 minutes. I think it is a very conservative and safe way to test it out. Empire wars arabia can come in the map pool after, since it plays out vastly different than regular arena.
I think if you add something new too conservatively everybody will just dislike it. Because it does not actually introduce anything new. Empire wars on Arena just takes out options and starts the game a bit later, it does not really change how the game plays out.
Empire War on Arabia and other maps, however plays out different. You have more feudal age agression, no time to wall before that and much more action, which is what a lot of players currently complain about, so it should immediately have a target audience. Whereas Empire Wars on Arena does not really have that.
empire wars on arena would mazbe resonante well with people that plav 4v4 black forst noobs only. These are also the very same people that wouldnt like empire wars arena i assume, since its too fast and agressive.
Looking at the lobby and from experience on hd, black forst is the vastly more played map and not arabia ( i never played on voobly) so i would hope putting it on arena would attract more people to like it.
How tf can you force everyone to enjoy various map? If someone dislike water maps won’t love just because you force them to play such maps
Most of the people is enjoying the game way more right now. Why should people get their fun ruined because you don’t like it?
Casual elo (the one you get in unranked) means nothing since people with 19++ in unranked will probably get smashed by a 14++ in ranked
Matchmaking is made for people who want competitive games, not for people who want various map
For many the preferred button made the game better. It’s you who are always bored with land maps and who need a different map every single maps. I, for one, I’m bored by hybrid/water maps even if i play them once, why should i be forced to play them every 2 games?
why don’t you go host a lobby with water maps? Problem solved, right?
Because they are not competitive settings with the exclusion of regicide on fortress (where btw the king snipe is very rare)
Wat? Didn’t you say that there should be no bans?
No ffs, those settings are not made for competitive games (except fast speed for DM)
