Shoutout to China 2nd PUP changes

I am a Diamond III player(id:Athanatoi, China main) which has wrote some suggestions to Chinese civ before. Suggestion to 1st PUP

Glad to see some changes to tweak the Chinese landmarks, and balance late game & early game. 2nd PUP changes, although its effect uncertain, is much better than the original 1st PUP changes. But there is one thing, Chinese identity(Taxation, Dynasty, Gunpowder) has been completely non-existent from 1v1 after pyrotech changes.

Here are some suggestions to make identities great again:

Identity Suggested Buff Suggested Nerf Reason
Taxation Imperial Palace now allows IO to auto collect tax without dropping Capacity changed to 30/60 Limit of taxation is that IO spends too much time on walking. It will make able to collect faraway mining camps as well.
Dynasty - Overall Give -25% discount to all 2nd landmark Change Song -35% villager training time bonus to -25% The high price is the key factor why players cannot go Yuan/Ming.
Yuan Dynasty Bonus +15% speed of all units, +15% HP of Cavalry Yuan is ruled by Mongols, so cavalry-focus is not only historical, but offers an instant bonus for Chinese player.
Yuan Dynasty Building Pagoda now correctly generates resources, and stacked with Tithe Barn Pagoda has a bug to not generate gold. With the changes it can actually stop being a meme.
Ming Dynasty Bonus +15% HP of all infantry units, -15% cost of all gunpowder units Ming is an infantry-focused Chinese dynasty, which is the first country to mass hand-cannon in war against Mongols. 15% will be mild but strong
Ming Dynasty Building Stone Wall time/building cost -50% Ming is the dynasty which re-vitalized the GreatWall. At this stage of the game, Stone wall becomes an essential task to guard the base. It is a minor buff but historical, and compensate that Ming has no special building.
Gunpowder Pyrotechmics +20% range for gunpowder units, but only 10% for siege. China cannot mass handcannon at current state. 11 range bombard is reasonable, still out-ranged by Culverins, but defeat common bombards.

Finally, i think China and Abbasid should receive some buff on game start, like HRE. Spirit Way changes are more like a step backwards, but I think the GreatWall / Granary / changes are very good. Grenadiers might be nerfed too hard, but who cares in 1v1?


China need Buff early game.

Some stuff I like in here but some I dont.

China has no imperial age anti siege weaponry so it should be fair to say that bombards need the 12 tile range. Meanwhile trebs out range bombards completely, springalds with same range and culverins.

Bombards cant be well microed back anymore or healed because nerfs.

Also I don’t think -25% is good enough discount on second landmark. For first it would be fine but after that it needs to be closer to 50% to make it worth especially when units are not meant to be made as core of army.

Also one thing Im gonna say now. Historically accurate is bs excuse to do things. Why is something build with food and gold and not stone and wood? Why is something repaired with wood and some with stone? Throw away the historically accurate mentality and focus on what makes interesting and fun game play experience. This is multiplayer not campaign.

Pogada also costs 150 wood + double age up and relics. China is civ that has no map control early on or its hard to get. This means they more often lose access to relics so benefit from this is very poor especially when its not workin properly. If it provided lets say 50/25 on each resource per minute when made and when relic place its buffed to 100/50 etc. So when not getting relic control it would be beneficial to get yuan and it pays over time

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Nothing about the PUP changed taxation??? Also Dynasty was untouched?? IFF anything the ONLY “nerf” we got regarding the Spirit Way is discounts on Grenadiers, because you weren’t spamming Zhuge Nu in Imperial?? what??? REGULARLY?? not in 1 v 1; and most times Yuan remained unobtained, so Spirit Way wasn’t being used for Fire lancer spam EITHER in 1 v 1. The change to Spirit Way is immediately more impactful in PUP in 1 v 1. Also because you’d want to eventually spam gren, you had to place the Spirit Way in a place where you could fit production around it, versus in the PUP you can just put it somewhere safe.

IMO Dynasty do NOT need a discount, rather Yuan needs more IMPACT. Notice it is TYPICAL (esp on closed maps where china thrives) to go DOUBLE IMPERIAL?? and WIN? So you telling us that you have the res to go double Imp but can’t afford double castle? And everyone always goes double feudal. The issue is impact; we don’t get enough for going double castle. Pagoda IMO, need the ability to collect all 3 relics. They said they got changes coming for Fire lancers so I’ll wait and see.

Also for the guy that said Chinese doesn’t have any anti siege in Imp?? But they do have access to the springald with upgrade like every other civ.

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