So as the title suggest, i think sicilians team bonus is kinda weird
They are not a naval civ, and yet they have a naval team bonus, which also is super exclusive to transport ships.
Other naval team bonus i can recall, are part of naval civs like dravidians or Vikings, and are also much more impactful in those Maps, like extra pop space for docks. I can’t recal another civ that has a super water specific team bonus while not being a naval civ atm
So this bonus seem out of place for the civ, and also mechanically weak. Sicilians are not a good civ either and could use help, and that help could come in the form of a new team bonus, more impactful and “spot on” for the civ. Maybe something that plays with stone, or stone defenses (having donjons and castles bonus) or something completely different
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Yes. Also change sarances transportship bonus too.
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Historically they were a decent naval civ. Probably a nod to that
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Team Bonus: Allies can create spearmen in their towers.
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Well, that makes sense, considering they lived on an island…
Britons lived on a Island too but don’t have a naval specific bonus… And sicilians represent the norman Kingdoms which also had control over south Italy, and were very much a land-oriented Kingdom, not like marine republics from the same regione for example
I’m ok with a team bonus not being particularly strong or super useful ever, but this one seem out of place and really niche even on water maps. It seem like a minor bonus that a totally different civ should have
What about giving them the old ethiopians team bonus of +3 LOS for outpost and towers(donjons) but also maybe add in there castles? That would still be not impressive but at least more useful and sinergic with the civ
Not at all.
Normans just used ships to find a place to settle, then nothing after it.
The kingdom of Siciliy if anything destroyed one of the maritime republics of Italy (Amalfi) paving the way for Genoese/Venetian domination.
But they have 2 solid eco bonuses for water maps.
Amalfi and naples were maritime republics at some point, and even if they never reached the level of venice or genoa (although the guiscard was able to pull off a victory against the venetians, so they weren’t as helpless) it was still a solid competitor, being central into the mediterranean.
Their TB is solid and useful, it can make even other civs with terribile water and allow them to pull off a landing.
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Normans (Sicilians civ.) were famous for taking their transport ships and landing in others’ places.
What TheViper said about the Sicilian team bonus:
My biggest issue with the TB is that it is extremely niche.
Weak TBs are bad enough, but when it only applies to full water maps (nevermind hybrid) then it should definitely be changed. Unfortunately it seems Devs are also confused as to what to do with it, considering that it has changed twice.
Many times I just feel like Devs don’t really know what to do with the civ and that it’s almost just a 5th child that they let drown in the pool. With very boring/ineffectual changes each time.
I would rather have Incas previous TB (+2 LOS) then the current sicilian one, at least it applies on considerably more maps
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Except it’s not really, it’s only ever useful ob water Maps, and even in that, It has one very specific use, which is the definition of niche. It does not foundamentally change how you play on that map either, it’s just a minor bonus for a very specific strategy which not even all civs would want to make, and TB altough made for the team are meant to be also useful for the civs that has It
Britons may have bonuses that applies ALSO on water maps, but they are not made for that kind of Maps, they are universally useful, while this TB Is Just a waste of space
Compare It to old ethiopians bonus It would be both better and more sinergic with their donjon play
Hauberk knight also got nerfed tough so not even accurate this ahaha but still funny
Sicilians are a pure meme civ, its totally intended to be. Starting with devs not even remembering their actual name, to a weird normandy landing teambonus as a historical fun fact without big gameplay impact, borderline ignoring of all bonus damage, and else copying teutons where they can.
imho sicilians atm need love for donjons and serjeants. last patch was a good step forward, but devs always feel the need to accompany buffs with nerfs for sicilians for some reason, thus their current winrates is not better, maybe even lower then before, cause they get even more wonky to play
like new donjon counting as prerequisite for stable/range makes them weirdly forced to build a donjon, but then maybe wasting 175 Stone that could have been used to build 3 extra TC instead of 1 in caste age
if they really want to push donjons play, they need to either add pop space or be 25 W cheaper, or 25 stone cheaper, to be able to drop 2 right away with the starting stone
serjeants also need a cheaper cost and/or either more HP in elitè version (90/95, to make it a proper tank), or more attack for each stage (6 feudal, 9 castle, 12 imp)
in all this, team bonus could be something more useful indeed, like +2 LOS for towers, castles, TCs, and outpost, or a minor infantry bonus
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And it’s fantastic in that setting.
Really, your aztec ally can actually play on a full water map and be useful.
Not every bonus have to be viable in all, or even most, of the settings if the civ overall is viable.
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Make the Donjon as cheap in stone as a regular tower but remove the +100 stone initial bonus and give +100 stone when advancing to castle age
That would be a cool bonus to bad spear aren’t viable in team games except maybe Nomad where the Knight Crossbow meta is less a thing.
Sicilians tough are not viable atm, or to put it better, they are not doying good on any particular map. So they could seriously use a useful TB
The problem i have with the TB Is that sicilians are not a naval civ and are not supposed to be good or even picked on water maps. You have like a ton of better civs to pick from in those maps
If they were a naval civ to begin with then it would have been acceptable
I would prefere a simple 25 res reduction, preferably Stone then their opening could be really unique with 2 donjons, but even 25 wood would make it as expensive in wood as a tower which would already be more acceptable
Then serjeants need help too
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