Sicilians siege bonus damage

Yes. But that’s fine sometimes. Franks are predictable, as are Huns, but this does not seem to hinder them much. Of course I do not think Sicilians will be so strong like those civs, but the dream lives on :slight_smile: I will keep trying to perfect my donjon rushes.

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:wink:

But my 2 cents to the OP:

I think the removal of the siege bonus damage decrease was too rushed. There is only a small amount of units dealing bonus damager against siege but some of units that deal well against siege even without any bonus (scout line !!!). In higher elo the probability of landing a direct mango hit on another mango is close to zero, so… I think this reasoning behind demanding that siege shouldn’t be influenced by that sicilians bonus is a bit… constructed.

I wouldn’t mind if sic siege would benefit from that bonus. I don’t think it would break the game.
But I admit I never used the delete trick, so maybe this could be an issue at competitive (?)

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Wasn’t pre nerf Konnik something similar, taking a lot of resoruces to be fully upgraded, what was the opponent doing, and well the Konnik was nerfed? or Leitis? or Arambai?
Hauberk is indeed way OP and probably could be nerfed or even removed though.

Idk about the Arambai nerf. Was the Arambai strong? Sure. Did the civ have anything else to rely on? Apparently not as they are now bottom tier.

As for the Leitis… well, I think being a counter to everything with armor, while having 2 PA did probably make the unit just a bit too versatile for a civ that also had (and has) a ton of useful options and utilities.

Not sure about the Hauberk being OP. It’s a late game tech, so it’s basically irrelevant on 1v1 Arabia, and in Arena there are plenty of ways to counter it.

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Arambai was OP in castle age

Arambai was OP-
But burmese were trash so…

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Idk about OP. Don’t really remember Burmese being a top tier civ.

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Double castle arambai was a thing like all players hated to face

Something that players don’t like =/= OP tho

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Maybe it was hated… but was it really OP? You should expect it and if you did it was quite easy to counter with xbows + scouts against the siege.

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In 1v1 maybe but at TGs it forced a lot of reactions were the player is completely helpless and the only thing left was the best of the luck.
Anyway this is not exactly a good topic to talk about this but just brought that to compare.

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Yeah. Some people also state that war wagons are OP in team games currently. And I can understand that reasoning.
You don’t need to fall back or however this is called in english. You have good reason to what you state there. Thing is in TG a pocket civ with a good mobile pushing tool unit is very powerful as you can take out an opponent very fast with doubling on him.
And a TG with -1 member is basically lost, so there is reason to criticize that kind of unit.

I can understand why this nerf happened, but I don’t think it should have happened that way as it made burmese terrible in 1v1. Arambai was basically the only tool they really had that compensated for them being terrible otherwise.

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i realy dont feel hauberk is op. i feel that hauburk cavalier are worse then spanish paladins in almost all situations. -40 hp -2 attack for +1+1 armor isent the best trade off. sure they do slightly better vs halbs but they also need 5 hits to kill halbs instead of 4 for paladins and have 40 less hp from the getgo.

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Iirc Konnik boosted by stirrups attacked as fast as samurais, beating FU paladins (they still are close now), any FU cavalier, halbs, any FU camel any other infantry and archer and basically every other unit in the game (except a few specialized, or way more expensive like elephants) while costing less than a knight AND coming out a building that is not easy to mass like stables, but not as hard as castles.
Sicilian cavalier can’t beat paladins or other “special” cavaliers like Malian, Teuton, Bulgarian and lives with only 14hp left against regular FU heavy camel (which costs 15% less resources though), also its attack is still the attack of a cavalier, Konnik had (and still has) 18atk, like FU Paladins.

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While you’re technically correct what you’re ignoring is that cavalier + hauberk is actually reasonably affordable in 1v1 and can be researched at the same time. Paladin is not reasonably affordable and can’t be researched until after cavalier.

Furthermore they get rhe bonus damage reduction and first crusade also gives them conversion resistance.

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Well first crusade is another 900 resources (600 being gold), and to use it with a gain you have to build 4/5 TCs, Cavalier with Hauberk is very good vs archers, obviously, but vs regular FU Cavalier? Sicilian player makes 20 cavaliers, can the Italian player maybe make 23-24? I doubt people countered cavaliers before with arbs/crossbows in equal numbers, so population shouldn’t be a problem for such a tiny increase.
Cost of First Crusade+Hauberk+Extra TC to make it good.
2 Extra TCs (100 free stone discounted) = 550W 100S, First Crusade = 300F 600G, Hauberk 500F 400G
Total cost => 550W 800F 1000G 100S
Pretty Hefty.

Concerning the OP, with the bonus resistance extended to siege, would be possible to exclude only the mangonel line?

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of course not. just like people don’t counter knights with crossbows in equal number.

Well I did it once in a 25 pop game I made with a friend… Since then we didn’t played aoe2 again… I wonder why. :smiley:

I challenge you to a 25 pop Forest Nothing best of 21