Sicilians start with extra stone?

I think we can all agree that TRUSH even from a generic civ is stronger than Donjon rush. I’m not explaining all but I can’t resist mentioning this point.

Sicilians lack Dark age bonus, you will very likely face TRUSH rather you go offensive and can do Donjon Rush. Most of the civ will go up earlier than you. Since you need all of your starting stone to build a single Donjon, enemy can easily bait you to build one. They can pretend to build a tower on your berry/wood and when you place a Donjon to counter, they can delete the tower and place it to the stone. If you lose at least 1 stone, you can’t build Donjon anymore and must have to use market. A generic civ can delete a tower at 60% and still can make another. While Sicilians just can’t delete a Donjon. Exact same thing with repair. With 75 stone you can repair a tower from 1 health to full and still have some - like 12/13 stone. To repair a Donjon you need to collect stone.

I really wanted Sicilians to have tower only for this reason. Just the watch tower that can’t be upgraded. And also keeping Donjon in Feudal so that you have both choices. But I realized most of the players, including me won’t like that. Instead I’m proposing +50 or maybe +75 stone for Sicilians.

For other civ this would be a disaster as you can place 2 towers without collecting any stone. But for Sicilians, I think it will be okay. Donjon rush will be on par with TRUSH and Sicilians won’t be that much vulnerable to TRUSH.

I want to give Serjeant a little buff too. Their UU is probably their best unit to go for. (Scouts → Knight is good too). I really liked the design of the unit and I don’t think any other infantry UU can carry the civ as much as Serjeant can. A stat buff will be hard to balance though imo for these 2 reasons -

  1. This is the only UU that can be trained in Feudal age. Also they can build Donjon and from there, you can train them again. So it is easier to mass than most of the other UU.
  2. First Crusade. You get 35 of them instantly.

So buffing there stats can be a bit OP and mass Serjeant with better stats will be hard to stop. So I’ll reduce their cost by 5 food and 5 gold. Still more expensive than militia line by 10 food and 10 gold. But it will be easier to go for Serjeant.

Edit : Made this thread before noticing the upcoming balance change.

1 Like

I think this is quite overlooked in discussions about the serjeant. This + the ability to build donjons really put a lot of constraints on the unit itself, since you can’t make it too good and have all those toys as well. Actually changing first crusade would help lift off some of those restrictions and allow for better changes.

Very true. But I’m 99.99% sure devs won’t change this as they do want AoE3 mechanics in AoE2. Also Serjeant cost is too much. No matter how strong you think the unit is.

Seems like the devs are decreasing the costs of Donjons in the next patch.

Yeah. Noticed that. Honestly I still think mine was better.

That gives you a bit of stone for repairing the donjon for a while… not a big donjon buff.
Bigger buff is the sergeant one.


Feel like everyone’s too fixed on the Donjon and its rush when really Scillians have amazing cav especially if you take momentum since at that point your opponent would usually switch into straight counters like going from xbows which died into some pikes or camels vs Scillian knights from where the Sicillian player can feel less threatened then a normal cav civ. Donjons weren’t meant to be used for spamming in an enemy base for their arrows like a trush but rather more as a single our double forward building to create pressure closer to an enemy base. Donjons are expensive in stone for that reason. Really its the Sergant not the Donjon that needs some love

1 Like

True. Which is why I’m not against adding tower to their tech tree despite it ruins the uniqueness. They need an answer to enemy trush aka counter tower. Donjon is not that answer.


It could be even +100 stone, so that they start with 300s.

It wouldn’t make them OP, and they would still need to get on stone to donjon rush.

And even with 175 stone cost, they are still vulnerable to Trush strategies in my opinion.

1 Like

with all the other changes they are getting Sicilians absolutely do not need +100 starting stone right now.

True, there is the extra HP on serjeants too, but they are still vulnerable to Trush strategies.

If a standard civ needs to build an emergency tower, they still have 75s in the bank. That could be used to repair the tower, or towards a new tower (so you need to gather just 50s).

Sicilians, as they are now, have only 25s, to repair, and to make another donjon they need to gather 150s.

It’s still worth to Trush sicilians, unless there are some other changes that affects the early game that I missed.

and that would be a great way to slow them down. considering how much stronger their army just got thats probably a good thing. but i don’t see the way as they stand with current upcoming changes you can go and say “give them 100 extra stone”.

SO is a great addition, and helps them overall, but they still are a slow civ with a big weakness in feudal.

I’m my opinion they still need to address that, otherwise sicilians will still over rely on first crusade.

its not just siege onager, first crusade gives conversion resistance, their UU just got buffed.

there knights are going to be a bloody nightmare to deal with.

Monks counter knights only early on, by the time sicilians get up a castle and go for first crusade, you’ll have to rely on pikes anyway, even if they take less bonus damage.

Yes, serjeants with SO will be a powerful combo, but a slow one too. On arena they might become good, on arabia, it’s a too slow combo in my opinion.

where did you find this?

and expensive. Elite Serjeant is not that cheap, and SO is just simply very very expensive.

Maybe not. But I stayed on the safe side. In closed maps where TRUSH is not a viable strategy, You can make 3 TCs from the starting stone (You still need wood). Considering your TC is built 100% faster that can be very very strong.

I agree. But at least you can repair or can delete Donjon at 12% and place it again.

Only from Castle. In Feudal it is +1 MA.

No, we don’t need to spam civilization tech trees with new bonuses.