Siege ram should be a must for slow civs and maybe removed from others

I think siege ram is a must for infantry civs or civs that have to rely on slow one-dimmensional push like teutons and goths. I could add malay or japanese to the list aswell.

I can’t understand why other civs have siege ram despite being so strong in other areas. Why mongols have siege ram if they have amazing mobility and raiding options? Chinese have siege ram, huns have siege ram despite having almost every other option, khmer have siege ram… I think if those civs can have siege ram despite being top tier, it could be a good idea to give that option to civs that really need it to survive.


Teutons aren’t one dimensional. Cavalry, Siege/Infantry pushes, strong defenses and a solid eco with reliable monks.

Japanese and Malay aren’t either.

because outside of siege and mangudai mongols literally have nothing else going for them.

Chinese lack siege engineers and BBC, they need something to destroy buildings. Huns have almost every other option? pray tell what do they have in the late game beyond siege ram, trebs, the knight line, and cav archers?
Kmher lost BBC and they keep getting nerfed every patch.

like who would you give it too that is weak and in need of help? the only civs i see being in need of a desperate buff right now are Indians, Spanish, and maybe Italians. i don’t think Siege Ram fits any of those except maybe Indians.


Huskarls eats buildings tbh.

Mat gave the answer.

They have one of the best if not the best trebs in game

Have BBC with SE.

Mat already explained.

They are a siege civ. They are supposed to have good siege and yet after losing BBC they have the worst siege tech tree among the siege civs.

Italians are fine after the last patch. They need SE rather than SR if anything.

I think you missed Koreans. They need something to have a better chance against cav civs.

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Because mangudai+siege is their late game combo, and for historical reasons, since mongols where great at sieges.

Without SE, SO or BBC you need to give them a good siege unit. Also, without hussars, they really need the anti archer option.

Huns need SR, they lack even onager, and their treb bonus helps in treb wars, not against buildings.

Kmer probably are the only ones that could survive without SR, but they were nerfed already a lot, so it’s not necessary to remove even that.

Goths have siege infantry basically with the huskarls. Teutons have a strong halbs+SO combo and their ironclad rams are the only rams that doesn’t take negative melee armor, but have +1 MA instead, which makes their rams even more difficult to kill with melee units infantry. If they had SR they would be OP.

Both have SE, which is enough to push buildings with capped rams and trebs.

Indians have SE, and spanish have SR and faster firing BBC. Both need some buff, but not on their siege, since either have SR or SE is enough.

Italians could really use SE, both for their BBC and for their uni bonus, and because in general their siege suck.

The only other civ who have a lackluster siege without any bonus to compensate that are lithuanians, who lack SE, SR, SO and HS all together, so they could get at least SE, but it’s also true that the civ itself it’s pretty much fine.

Yeah, but not in form of siege.

The Japenese already have incredibly strong siege because of their Kataparuto trebuchets.

Goths have strong siege too because their tech tree is nearly complete.

Siege ram is actually a pretty widespread technology, that is given or not for a bunch of reason, not just whether the civ feels “slow” or “fast”. It’s kind of like the hussar technology, it’s given to many civs, including some you would expect to be slow based on their description (like the Slavs that are labelled as infantry/siege)

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Halb siege ram is a very strong composition in early imp, giving SR to civs like Japanese with their deadly halbs or Malay with their faster age up is a balance nightmare. Both of them also have FU arbs to go with it. Goths have ridiculously cheap and faster training halbs. They also don’t need siege ram considering huskarls and champions to an extent fill that role, and Goths don’t need late game buff.

Teutons have Teutonic knights which would be incredibly good coupled with siege ram, and they’d have ironclad to go with it

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As a reminder, those are the civs which have siege ram:


Are goths, teutons or malay stronger than some of those civs? I think they don’t. Do some of those civs have better options in late imp, like full upgraded hussar? Yes, they have.


Teutons is definitely stronger than Spanish and Turks and arguably Saracens.

Do they feel like the lack of SR? Goths Huskarl can easily take down buildings and immune to arrows just like siege. Teutons have everything but SR. Isn’t SO and BBC with SE with more MA more than enough? JoJo explained about Malay.

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excuse me? Teuton and Malay are god tier on Arena (where siege ram matters even more) and are usable just fine on Arabia. Goths are meh but it’s certainly not due to the lack of siege ram.

And I’m sorry but with this kind of argument you can give pretty much any take to any civ.

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Indians have a fine win rate, always. I would say Cumans.

The hype of Indians isn’t justified looking at stats.