Putting arbitrary caps on how many of a specific unit you can get makes 0 sense in an age game, they are softcapped by the fact that they take up a ton of army space, and while I dont think walls really need much changes except maybe nerfing build time, I would rather take the Vipers opinion over someone who thinks cannons should be removed from the game.
Most pros are very happy with the state of siege (excluding clocktower, clocktower is way too strong)
Yes seige needs a limt on how many don’t need 30 cannons No don’t agree with pros.the players base is mostly regular people who enjoy the game.but it’s up to the devs who they listen to and how the game is we will have to wait and see what happens.
You don’t need a limit, just building 30 cannons should be bad (which it is because then you have 0 military and they other guy builds 90 scouts or horseman and kills all your units you spent 18K resources on)
The speed of non-upgraded culverin is right for all siege IMO. Maybe some civs get a small buff to siege speed (~10% at most) but everything else right now feels like it’s possessed.
non-culverin siege is actually around the same movespeed difference from units as aoe2 trebuchets were, so excluding them getting yam network etc, the speed seems to not really be the issue (don’t remember anyone complaining trebs ran away too fast)
The thing with AoE 2 is that trebs take a looong time to pack/unpack so by the time they are supposed to be running away they’re likely dead already. AoE 2 mangonels cause friendly fire damage so they can’t be used liberally, bombard cannons are too fragile and other siege have their very clear weaknesses of their own.
Siege in AoE IV besides being fast have few drawbacks or weaknesses. Let’s take bombards for example which can one-shot many units, can one-shot anti-siege weapons if micro’ed correctly, melt all structures quickly, don’t damage your own units, pack/unpack almost instantly and run away at the same speed as foot soldiers. No wonder why they dominate late game and are too hard to counter.
Even with the tech bombards are slower than the slowest foot soldiers (MAA) unless you have like yam network and stuff (which imo probably shouldnt be applied to siege). Not really sure why damaging own units is relevant on bombards when it doesn’t even do aoe damage.
Not really sure I can get behind the friendly fire mangonel argument. If they did friendly fire they would have to be way stronger, just look at aoe2 mangonels or onagers, they like one-shot units and shot much faster than aoe4 mangonels, meanwhile you need like 3 mangonel shots to wipe a set of archers. I can see the argument for giving huge mangonel buffs and friendly fire, but not sure if it’s something necessary for the game, no friendly fire works fine.
The biggest issues is probably how quickly bombards unpack and the torch animation that makes siege take way longer to kill than they should if you dont micro. (and china, but clocktower is a seperate thing)
They might be, but the difference must be significant enough to be able to catch up before reaching the other end of the map. A few percent points difference in speed don’t matter if the escaping siege had a head start.
I was just describing an example of AoE 2’s better implementation of strength vs weakness. I also don’t want friendly fire in AoE 4. I hated using mangonels in AoE 2 because they were always my enemy’s best friend (shots always landed on top of my own units). Also, with friendly fire you open a can of worms because then what happens with burning oil and other siege that should be also doing aoe damage (English trebs)?
Have all siege movement speed reduced so infantry can catch up in less than 3 miles, pack/unpack slower and please fix bombards able to fire whenever there are cliffs or mountains that should prevent them from doing so because of the angle. If you fix that people will use trebs more because of their higher firing arc. Oh, bombards could also have a small aoe radius to compensate for the nerf.
Thinking about it, maybe another solution is to pause siege reload time when you pack it if its pack animation is going to be so short, maybe tying reload to the unit being stationary? When mangos have an 8 second reload time, its really weird they can run away while they reload and then turn right back around and shoot. (same with the 4.25 sec bombard reload)
They need to remove seige all togther keep rams and seige towers.i know u al won’t like it don’t care I am anti seige till it is gone.this game gets balance right
Lol, idk why you want to play games where the victory condition is whoever builds the first wonder wins, but you do you I guess. Wonders + walls are already too hard to deal with on many maps in team games.
Walls feel a bit weak.
But keeps are freaking weak and useless:
And with the actual siege they melt haha
You can destroy fast anything you want, if you not get broken forest or broken hills map. I think defense buildings is underpovered compare to aoe2 sorry its my opinion.
Did you find in this game trebutchet, rams, cannon, or mangonel or you are still stuck in dark age?
Indeed. Actually I would love if bombards get erased from the game and you need use rams, trebs and siege towers.
And tone down mangonels. Or at least make that them hurt allies
You can put bombards behind a costly tech upgrade that must be researched first. That’d remove them from almost all games except if you’re really, really wealthy in the late game and for some reason you haven’t obliterated your enemies.
The game is already often pretty slow to push areas and team games have big wonder issues, removing bombards would make it even worse.
It’s interesting seeing so many conversations about keeps being useless right alongside conversations about how keeps +springalds or bombards make it impossible to push.
sige is OP AF, I had suggested this in another thread. They need to be slowed down, unpack, pack, movement speed all need to be slow.
Indeed. On 3th start the mangonels. And 4th looks like 1th Wold War with mangonels and Bombards running around haha.
And without bombard you still have trebs. They are less op and absurd than canons. And is cooler to see.
On AoE2 siege hits hard vs units, but are also slow and die fast vs any kind of attack. Canons were slow and died wil just look at them. And trebs need time to pack and unpack… Siege was kinda balanced.
But on Age4 siege is a pain that ruins a bit the game. Make a spam of siege is always a solution, doesn’t matter the enemy or his units, siege is a winner choice
Exactly. Siege is meant to be a powerful support unit that is very powerful vs units but also very vulnerable if infantry/cavalry get close. It isn’t meant to be the main composition of your army but in this game the siege is so fast and so tanky you don’t need to worry about being killed by infantry or cav because the siege can outpace the infantry and even when the infantry or cav manages to get close you need like 20 spearmen or maa/knights to one shot the siege.
I got a feeling that bombards would be totally fine if they would do half their current damage.
Lets give them 70% their current damage and make them quite a bit slower, should be fine then.
No need in 2 hitting a production building, if they would need 3 hits, that sounds still good to me.
Another issue I got with siege, I don’t see much sense using trebs.
And Mangonals need to do friendly fire, guess 99% would agree on that.