Single target scorpions

Although some of my favorite civs have a great siege department, I realized that I barely use scorpions. I also hardly ever encounter any and as far as I know, this unit is not popular at all, no matter which elo.

There might be many reasons for this. My suspicion is, that scorpions have no real role. They cost something close to 2 archers, but - considering their fire rate - have a weaker single target dps, are not effected by ballistics and, are too slow to micro or kite and take much longer to field, since it takes ages to go to ca and build siege workshops. The only argument for them is the splash damage. Anyway, for that role, players prefer the mangonel, since its damage is significantly higher.

Ofc a buffing scorpions could increas their popularity, but I don´t think, that this woul be a good idea. A buff to scopion would most likely lead to the result, that either mangonal gets pointless because of better scorpions or the result would be 2 units with nearly same quality an purpose, which would also be a little bit odd.

Maybe, it would be better to give scorpions the concept and role, they really had: Scorpions were designed to fire spears/bots or stones on sigle targets over a high distance (much higher than archers were able to).

Maybe scorpions should work just that way - A siege unit, with a good range (something between mangonal and treb), with quite a low fire rate and just against single targets, but with fast moving missiles (like an arrow) and heavy damage. (ballista worked that way in AOE 1 as far as I remember and was a great unit there. Balista also worked that way in Stronghold and even there it was good).

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There might be many reasons for this. My suspicion is, that scorpions have no real role. They cost something close to 2 archers, but - considering their fire rate - have a weaker single target dps, are not effected by ballistics and, are too slow to micro or kite and take much longer to field, since it takes ages to go to ca and build siege workshops. The only argument for them is the splash damage. Anyway, for that role, players prefer the mangonel, since its damage is significantly higher.

Just want to say that scrop projectiles are faster than mangonels, so it’s more difficult to micro against scrops in some cases (esp. when supported by knights). Also it has great usage against CA and pikes, which have a hard time countering scrops.

No idea about your suggestion tho

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Scorpions are great. Knights and Scorpions is a powerful combination (lessens threats from pikes, offers some counter firepower against xbow) If you can take an advantage with your push, you can start adding rams to take out tcs. The scorpions will prevent any chances of villagers beating down your rams

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Isn’t knights and scorpions a very expensive combination? 75G each unit, and you have to mass scorpions to justify their use. Also if somehow a mangonel shot hits them, all are destroyed.
I’d like to use them more, but they seem clunky, pricey and rather weak.
I just make them with Celts and Khmer, obviously, but just because these civs get insane bonuses for them.

You don’t need a lot of them. There are usually no high army numbers in early castle, so just a few will be enough

I believe your statement has been the meta for a while now, but it appears to be changing. I’m a relatively casual watcher of pro play, and I have noticed an increase in scorpion usage. Here are the reasons I can deduce this is happening:

Scorpions are harder to outmicro. As people get better at dodging mangonel shots, a few scorpions can often do a more consistent job of dealing with groups of archers than a single mangonel (or even two).

Scorpions are less costly to lose to redemption monks. Heavy siege pushes have been quite vulnerable to redemption monks and scorpions make a less costly trade for a monk than a mangonel does. Hoang in particular appears to do ram, scorp, extras type pushes more than his traditional famous knight, monk, mangonel push, possibly for this reason.

Scorpions are cheaper to make singles. As people start to see their value for other reasons, people who want a mangonel immediately, will often settle for a scorpion if they only have the resources for a scorpion as is serves a similar role.

To summarize, compared to mangonels, scorpions sacrifice raw damage and big shot potential for consistency. And consistency is often desired, especially for siege units which are often the least consistent damage in the game.

I don’t know why but I thought we were talking about large armies. :sweat_smile:

I think a little speed movement buff could be good, but not really sure about it

Scorpions are used a lot by good players, just because you don’t use them doesn’t mean they are weak

Scorpions are great units but they do require a fair bit more micro than mangonels to be effective, they are very squishy and will die easily if you’re not paying attention.

You see scorpions a lot in high level games though, especially in early castle against pikes or CA.

Personally my micro sucks and I prefer to use mangonels instead.