Small donjon buff

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
#1

I am not taking arguments for costs and build time or some other form: so I am not rejecting your argument. Just think of my tweak in isolation.

Donjons: minimum range is 0 by default

The most noticeable difference between a Donjon and a Watch Tower is the size. The Donjon (albeit having higher HP is Feudal Age) is 2 times the size of a Watch Tower in surface area. In other words, it can be attacked by twice the number of units. It is also 4 times the size in area, so you will need much more walls/houses to wall off the base of the Donjon. This makes it much easier to take down in general.

Also the Donjon in Feudal Age can fire a maximum of 5 projectiles despite having 10 Garrison space, demarcating a clear distinction with the Teuton Watch Tower.

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#2

You’re right about Donjons being too easy to slap down with vils. I’d be willing to try a donjon rush if they had murder holes from the go.

With the cost still being what it is, and seargents not actually being good, a donjon rush is a big commitment. More of one, I’d argue, then a tower rush. Plus the sicilians don’t even get towers which weakens their defensive ability. So while 0 minimum range is a significant buff, I agree it might be justifiable.

#3

Interesting.
This would make murderholes only useful for castles, but since they build castles faster, i have no problems with that

#4

I have a feeling that this can be OP. “Tower rush” from a generic civ is probably better than “Donjon rush” but not being able to batter down Donjon…I’m really not sure how strong this can be.

#5

how about being able to research it at the donjon (half the cost)?

#6

odd. an out-of-the-blue suggestion that I’m willing to get behind.

This post is a unicorn.

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#7

Nice suggestion. Seems like a minor but useful change. Donjon rushes at the moment are just pretty weak as you have indeed outlined in your post

#8

yup a good idea I support it too

#9

I don’t agree. I think free murder holes in feudal are OP, because the only possibility to stop a donjon rush then would be defensive towers. If for some reason you don’t have stone access you can’t do anything against the sicilians then. In castle age you have access to siege, so murder holes are balanced, but in feudal there is no couter to towers with murder holes.

#10

Agree and also would make the Serjeant rush broken.

#11

Serjeants can’t garrison in Donjons to shoot extra arrows, unlike Villagers.

#12

But you rush with vills and then use the serj to help defend bottoms

#13

Everyone keeps calling serj weak. Every time i test them they beat even numbers of units archers, light cav, mma and elite serj is even better. Everyone talks about it not being cost effective. They will trade with even cost groups too. They are slow and shouldn’t be your only army. Mix them with scouts and the donjons and you have a great set up. With free murder holes you would never kill donjon and could take out tc with ease using serj and donjon to protect. Honestly this civ is the better of the two. Maybe instead of murder holes they could get another new building called baricade. It cost the 10 wood takes 4 to surround donjon can only be built infront of donjon and has half hp of regular wall but allows serj to pass one way from donjon. This will help with defense and allow you to continue producing.

#14

Why do you want to add more AoE3 mechanics

#15

because your opponent isn’t microing.

congrats they win against a meat shield unit that isn’t supposed to win 1v1 fights.

i’m assuming this is supposed to be the militia line? yeah now compare the cost and put equal resource investment up and see who wins the fight.

now you’re heavily investing into feudal age and your opponent can go up to castle and clean you up with knights with ease.

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#16

I think 1 vs 1, Serjeant = M@A since extra armor of Serjeant and extra attack of Militia line negate each other completely.

#17

once castle age is researched thats no longer true though.
serjeant 8 attack, 3/3 armor, LS 9 attack 0/1 armor.
the serjeant clearly better but also more costly.

#18

If you want to give them a small buff, go with Donjon provides +5 (maybe even +10) pop space. No minimum range has a possibility to be OP.

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#19

If your putting the effort to donjon rush in feudal its kinda your fault if you let your opponent go up with an economy to build enough knights.

You shouldn’t have to fight an equal cost army. I serjeant almost beats 2 mma. 2 serjeant beat 3 mma. If your going for this strategy you should be putting a donjon on gold. Which case you shouldn’t have to deal with a large build up of units. I think they are just kinda one trick and just need a good build order and map found.

#20

I would be against this suggestion if the Sicilians had anything else going for them, but even their best options are pretty terrible except the Serjeant and it’s got it’s own set of considerable downsides.

Just remember you aren’t giving a tool to a nearly-full toolbox. You’re giving a hammer to a box of nails.

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