Soldados should have a (-)bonus vs skirmishers

They are too efective against them, currently they are just countered by canons and Mexican players just need to spam them with few canons to win a battle.
In few words, a Sweden 2.0

2 Likes

I think a 0.6x AbstractInfantry penalty on the 'nade attack would be appropriate. I think they’re mostly fine otherwise.

5 Likes

I doubt the design idea of “a small number of expensive elite units supported by weaker auxiliary units” would ever work as intended. In the end people were just spamming that elite unit, or die on the way to spamming it.

Even in total war games

In earlier games like Medieval 2 where elite units are replenished very slowly, or Empire where elite units have a build limit, people are forced to have unit variety.
But in later games people seem to just grab whatever unit they can get to live through the early game and start spamming the elite units because there is no limit. BUT in pvp unit composition is still forced because there is a hard limit on resources (which AOE games do not have).
Of course AOE is a competitive RTS which is a different genre but the logic behind unit choice is similar.


We can look at some other super units: urumi (super skirmisher), spahi (super hand cav), tokala (another super hand cav), skull knight (super hand inf), maigadi (super musketeer), mercs.
Most of them either have limited numbers, and/or can only be trained from a limited number of buildings, and/or can only be sent from home city.
Soldado on the contrary is a very universally-accessible super unit (even more accessible because you can train them from field hospitals), and can be buffed to almost omnipotent.
I’d suggest either nerf their omnipotence, or limit the grenade ability to revolutions, or add a build limit (which may be a bad idea but just bringing this up).
If that kills Mexico, buff their early game a bit. I really don’t like the idea of “super omnipotent military but limited by a slow start” like the old Swedes. Even for the slow late-game civs, people should still be encouraged to consider unit composition and respond to opponent’s strategies, not spamming one single unit.

BTW the grenade attack should not have even higher range than regular attack. That makes no sense. You either have higher damage with shorter range or lower damage with longer range (like the African units which need to be microed to deal more damage). Now the less micro-ed side can deal higher damage with the grenades more easily.

3 Likes

Problem is, soldatos are useless without the grenade card, so it is probably wiser to shift some power around. Buff the baseline attack, nerf grenade range and damage. So you have to micro the units in position for grenades.

1 Like

Useless without, OP with it. That card should have a double edge effect or at least some of this suggestions.
It would be fine reducing their damage to their counters, as it happened with caroleans

Not really comparable to Caroleans. Caroleans are good units on their own, none of their cards really nerf them. The problem with soldatos is that by default they are less effective than the 2 musketeers they are supposed to replace. Only when you ship the grenade card do they become just barely better. I still find it easy to counter them even with the card (using the spacing stance). The grenade also does ranged damage, so it is actually blocked by skirmisher armor. A shift like this: +10 damage to ranged and -10% damage to grenade launcher via the grenade card is probably the way to go.

2 Likes

I think that the comunity from 2020 had other opinion about this until the nerf to their resistance card

surprise grenadiers are actually a counter to infantry.

i still think the unit is just weird, its not how a musk/grenadier combo should work and mexico shouldn’t have such a unit at all.

1 Like

That’s why a straightforward musketeer-grenadier hybrid should not exist as a regular unit…
And it’s unlike the rifle rider where you can give them an additional tag so that it is more countered. There is only one tag that is countered for infantry which is heavy inf and it already has that tag.

Multi-purpose regular units should not exist, unless it has some additional weakness (rifle rider or lancer) AND does not replace the normal counterpart, or at least make it a special mode/ability that needs to be micro-ed. In any case it should not be an even more no-brainer version with additional roles than the normal unit.

5 Likes

Well, remove their bonus vs cavalry then, at least

1 Like

skirmishers still outrange them and still hit hard since unlike grenadiers soldadoes have melee resist not range resist.

3 Likes

i think a musk/gren combo where the grenade attack is a cooldown would have been both more balanced and more interesting.

that is what i would like to see, but obviously not for mexico, faction doesn’t have anything to do with that.

1 Like

Why so much HP?? Grenadiers reach 500HP with 2pop slots and Musketeers reach less than 500HP.

They would be completely useless with their health. The only good thing they do without grenade card is blocking cavalry.

Then, that card should have a penalty as solingen steel, thin red line pr corselet have

I don’t think a speed penalty is needed. Probably a plain nerf to grenade damage in conjunction with a buff to usual ranged attack will do.

Cual es la idea ahora de nerfear el soldado? que acaso todos los nerf que le hicieron a mexico fueron pocos? amigo de todas las cosas los soldados eran lo menos rotos posibles, de verdad tanto te cuestan matarlos con guerrilleros? por muchos puntos de resistencia que tengan una buena masa de guerrilleros los revientan.

1 Like

Ojalá fuera así, pero no. Eñ daño de área mata cualquier cosa, y no hablemos del ataque de asedio… Necesitan un nerfeo al menos unido a la carta del lanzagranadas.

No soy el único que piensa que son demasiado fuertes, se ha llegado a decir por aquí incluso que deberían ser como los spahies o las urumis.

Por cierto, estas últimas apenas hacen nada porque los soldados siguen con vida (dañados, pero vivos), haciendo el mismo daño. Por mucho que digan no son equivalentes a los cañones, porque estos sí matan de una andanada, eliminando varios soldados.

Here’s a less extreme idea: how about the grenade attack is now charged and gets triggered every 9-12 seconds, with no range restriction and a +10% to ranged attack?

Advantages: does not take away from the fantasy of the unit.
Soldatos remain useful.
Range restriction is removed.
They are easier to counter.

2 Likes

It could work but im not sure about that 10% to range attack