# Somalis Civilziation Idea **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [December 1, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283 "2022-12-01T16:09:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cagyunicycle330/32/29597_2.png) [@CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CagyUnicycle330)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 7:36am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/23 "2022-12-07T07:36:58Z")
> [@Mahazona](#): > > Why are you trying to make them pirates?historically they were not pirates unlike now. It’s an economy bonus. It also incentivizes aggressive play. ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/24 "2022-12-07T08:15:07Z")
> [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > Oh. I thought they stole it from the Italian colonizers. AoE2 doesnt include the 19th century so Italian colonization is irrelevant tbh. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > How so? Its dumb to call an entire nation dumb. Thats what you did, you basically said “yeah the somalis arent exactly smart”. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > Are you saying they are stupid but that’s not the cause of their problems or are you saying that they are neither stupid nor do they have problems? Im saying that the reason they are having problems today isnt that they are stupid. And no, they arent stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Alexios732](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/alexios732/32/136807_2.png) [@Alexios732](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Alexios732)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 8:27am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/25 "2022-12-07T08:27:58Z")
I woulld like to see this civ on AoE 3, but AoE 2? Isn’t it a bit too far off in AoE 2’s timeline? ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/27 "2022-12-07T08:43:33Z")
> [@Alexios732](#): > > I woulld like to see this civ on AoE 3, but AoE 2? Isn’t it a bit too far off in AoE 2’s timeline? The Somalis were since before the AoE2 timeline very relevant for the Indian Ocean trade, and we know that they had centralised states since the 9th century. They are much more fitting for AoE2’s timeline than Huns or Romans They also clashed with Ethiopians and Portuguese and we have a decent campsaign potential ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/28 "2022-12-07T08:53:23Z")
Subtle diferences lmao. It doesnt matter if you said “yes, they are all dumb” and “yes, they are largely dumb”, in practice it is just as insulting. Also the reason they have bad IQ tests is because they cant go to school > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > Debatable And with comments like these you arent making yourself look better in that aspect. ---
**Author:** ![Akoskaaa10](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/akoskaaa10/32/29945_2.png) [@Akoskaaa10](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Akoskaaa10)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/29 "2022-12-07T08:55:21Z")
Shewa Sultanate was founded in the 9th century. ---
**Author:** ![CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cagyunicycle330/32/29597_2.png) [@CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CagyUnicycle330)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/30 "2022-12-07T09:06:55Z")
> [@TungstenBoar](#): > > Subtle diferences lmao. It doesnt matter if you said “yes, they are all dumb” and “yes, they are largely dumb”, in practice it is just as insulting. It’s **impossible** to say anything critical about anybody without seeming insulting. If you’re more worried about something being ‘insulting’ than being factually correct, there lies the problem. Also, saying that they are **all** dumb would be dumb and racist because it does not take outliers into account. It is important to understand the difference. I tried to say it in a politically correct way just to avoid offending anyone. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think I know where you’re going with this: you’re probably gonna call me a racist but let me tell you that I’m from a low IQ country too and I can confidently say that 80-90% of my countrymen are kinda dumb. It’s not completely their fault, though. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > And with comments like these you arent making yourself look better in that aspect. IQ is a good measure of intelligence. Other indications include things like innovation and nobel prize winners. A country with ~100+ IQ is **arguably** smarter (overall) than a country with an IQ below 80. It’s not about **looking better**. It’s about empiricism and rationalism over emotionalism. I’m guessing you’re a white person who is virtue signalling out of guilt (because his ancestors colonized the world). That would make you (a former colonizer) telling a me (a formerly colonized person) how to live my life and what to say. ---
**Author:** ![UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/upmostrook9474/32/47514_2.png) [@UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/UpmostRook9474)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:17am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/31 "2022-12-07T09:17:12Z")
Um… What does IQ have to do with being worthy of being a civilization? Does anyone know the average IQ of Huns or Vikings? This is not even discussing the identity of a civilization. As a “formerly colonized person”, I think this thread should have nothing to do with colonization. ---
**Author:** ![CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cagyunicycle330/32/29597_2.png) [@CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CagyUnicycle330)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:19am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/32 "2022-12-07T09:19:51Z")
> [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > What does IQ have to do with being worthy of being a civilization? Nothing. What makes a civ worthy are eco bonuses and an OK tech tree. > [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > Does anyone know the average IQ of Huns or Vikings? Vikings had high IQ, I believe. Their descendants are Danes, Norwegians and Swedes… maybe some from FInland too. I dunno about the Huns. Where do their descendants live? > [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > I think this thread should have nothing to do with colonization. Ideally, yes but colonialism influenced some civilizations. That’s especially the case in Age Of Empires 3. For example, the Berbers ruled part of present day Spain and Portugal at one point. ---
**Author:** ![UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/upmostrook9474/32/47514_2.png) [@UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/UpmostRook9474)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:33am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/33 "2022-12-07T09:33:40Z")
> [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > Nothing. What makes a civ worthy are eco bonuses and an OK tech tree. So what were you brought th IQ issue here for? > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > Vikings had high IQ, I believe. Their descendants are Danes, Norwegians and Swedes… maybe some from FInland too. I dunno about the Huns. Where do their descendants live? So what does their IQ have to do with Vikings and Huns becoming civilizations? Not to mention, you did not prove the correlation between the IQ of ancient people and the IQ of their modern descendants. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > colonialism influenced some civilizations. That’s especially the case in Age Of Empires 3. This thread is about AoE2. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > the Berbers ruled part of present day Spain and Portugal at one point. I have never heard anyone refer to that period of history as “colonial”. I believe the terms about colonization have relatively strict definition. ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/34 "2022-12-07T09:34:44Z")
> [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > It’s **impossible** to say anything critical about anybody without seeming insulting. If you’re more worried about something being ‘insulting’ than being factually correct, there lies the problem. > > I tried to say it in a politically correct way just to avoid offending anyone. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think I know where you’re going with this: you’re probably gonna call me a racist but let me tell you that I’m from a low IQ country too and I can confidently say that 80-90% of my countrymen are kinda dumb. It’s not completely their fault, though. The problem is that you went out of your way to say that the Somalis are dumb today. This is completely irrelevant to wheter the 16th century Somalis were smart enough to ride camels. It doesnt matter that you said it in a “”“politically correct way”“”, which was still the same but slightly less agressive. And just in case you dont know, Somalia for a very very long time was one of the most urbanized places in Africa. Just because they have been at war for 30 years preventing people to go to school doesnt mean they were always like that. And its not like it mattered how smart they were back then either since it was a rhetoric question. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > It’s about empiricism and rationalism over emotionalism. Its also about context. People in the US not knowing that there are multiple South American and European countries wouldnt be as remarkable if the US wasnt acountry with an stable government, high literacy and one of the two largesr economies of the world. Somalia has been at war for 30 years. Calling them stupid is bad taste. It would be like making fun of what Ukranian refugees are wearing > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > That would make you (a former colonizer) telling a me (a formerly colonized person) how to live my life and what to say. What? You are trying to make me feel guily? LOL ---
**Author:** ![CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cagyunicycle330/32/29597_2.png) [@CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CagyUnicycle330)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:42am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/35 "2022-12-07T09:42:26Z")
> [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > So what were you brought th IQ issue here for? Read the comment thread. It was a discussion about intelligence. > [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > So what does their IQ have to do with Vikings and Huns becoming civilizations? Again, nothing and that was not the point. > [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > Not to mention, you did not prove the correlation between the IQ of ancient people and the IQ of their modern descendants. Well, #1. I don’t think IQ tests existed back then #2. Some of that intelligence or a lack of it likely passed on to their offspring. > [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > This thread is about AoE2. I know. > [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > I believe the terms about colonization have relatively strict definition. Colonization: the action or process of settling among and establishing control over the indigenous people of an area. So, that’s pretty much what happened. > [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > I have never heard anyone refer to that period of history as “colonial”. Those people were being PC, nothing more. That was 100% colonization. No different from other cases. ---
**Author:** ![CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cagyunicycle330/32/29597_2.png) [@CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CagyUnicycle330)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/36 "2022-12-07T09:47:50Z")
> [@TungstenBoar](#): > > The problem is that you went out of your way to say that the Somalis are dumb today Their average IQ seems to indicate that they aren’t very smart. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > It doesnt matter that you said it in a “”“politically correct way”“”, which was still the same but slightly less agressive It does. I never had any aggressive intentions. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > People in the US not knowing that there are multiple South American and European countries wouldnt be as remarkable if the US wasnt acountry with an stable government, high literacy and one of the two largesr economies of the world. I’m not an American. I’m not white either. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > Calling them stupid is bad taste I merely pointed out that they aren’t the brightest. I didn’t wanna use strong words like stupid. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > What? You are trying to make me feel guily? LOL Nope. Merely pointing out your white supremacistic tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tungstenboar/32/173768_2.png) [@TungstenBoar](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TungstenBoar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/37 "2022-12-07T10:10:48Z")
> [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > Their average IQ seems to indicate that they aren’t very smart But you didnt need to bring this up at all! And again, its a bad taste thing to say. It would be like calling someone ugly after him havimg an accident. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > It does. I never had any aggressive intentions If you said “sorry, but your dog is kinda ugly” I would feel practically the same as if you said “your dog is ugly” Maybe you didnt want to insult them, idk, but not backing down on what you said is a bit dumb > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > I’m not an American I got that. Im just using them as an example. Which actually I shouldnt have used them as an example (although they live well enough so ###### fun of them isnt that problematic) but the point I was making is that people in Somalia have a hard life. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > I merely pointed out that they aren’t the brightest. I didn’t wanna use strong words like stupid. It doesnt matter how you say it. Its still Insulting. Also you said that calling them stupid is “debatable”. > [@CagyUnicycle330](#): > > Nope. Merely pointing out your white supremacistic tendencies. Ah yes Im the bad guy (and clearly a white supremacist) here for saying to the colonized (wheter you are Australian, Indian, South African or Nigerian) to not say bad stuff to the country in an humanitarian crisis Like c’mon. Its not like if most of my ancestors were the people that invaded Africa, most of my family were poor people that worked as farmers and artisans in rural regions in central and Eastern Europe. I feel bad about some of the stuff my country did in the past to the natives here in South America but I dont feel guilty about you nor about the Somalis. ---
**Author:** ![CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cagyunicycle330/32/29597_2.png) [@CagyUnicycle330](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CagyUnicycle330)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2022, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283/39 "2022-12-07T10:36:40Z")
> [@TungstenBoar](#): > > But you didnt need to bring this up at all! Well, that would be awkward for me but ok. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > And again, its a bad taste thing to say. It would be like calling someone ugly after him havimg an accident. Well. OK. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > Which actually I shouldnt have used them as an example (although they live well enough so ###### fun of them isnt that problematic) but the point I was making is that people in Somalia have a hard life. I got friends in the US. They say that your quality of life is awesome if you’re rich but pretty bad if you’re poor… as in it’s a land of extremes. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > Ah yes Im the bad guy (and clearly a white supremacist) Not a white supremacist per say but some mild tendencies. Again, there’s nuance here. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > most of my family were poor people that worked as farmers and artisans in rural regions in central and Eastern Europe If so, I’m neutral to you. I’m mostly critical of France, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and Germany. > [@TungstenBoar](#): > > stuff my country did in the past to the natives here in South America which country is that? I thought South America was colonized by Portugal and Spain. [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/somalis-civilziation-idea/220283.md?page=1)