Some balance changes

Same goes for the Templar church tech for the Maltese that gives the Hospitaller the crusader helmet, the speed penalty is extra harsh since it only gives some attack not hp and Malta has less option to get speed back up. Honestly I’d rather see them remove all speed debuffs and replace them with some other downside like cost etc.

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Good points! I am going to have to edit several things that I did not reconsider well.

Is true, I don’t know why I put exp and export, when they can be really brokens, we must improve the dripping of the rest of the resources.

Also forget this, totally agree, is a better option.

OMG I did not think that the ff would improve. I quit this.

Agree, but I would also like a small early improvement and we still have a deck space problem with at least 3 cards that only work for them and pikes (which the Germans don’t use).

They could be affected by the upgrade cards, I specifically added these units for their historical participation. But I would also like Jat lancers / elephants.

Yep, like this.

i think portugal needs another unique unit and the “uprights” are a great option and very easy to modify. Although both cac are somewhat redundant, they would only be available in shipments and it would be interesting if they were affected by the Constable card.

Ugh…better not haha

2 military shipment (japanese and shotel) would be great.

I didn’t think too much here, I agree but if they go back to 1 pop they need a good nerf/rework.

That scares me too much, jaguars seem weak but they are a heavy inf and cav meat grinder and we have already seen how strong a high attack speed is.

I dont think they need a big rework tbh

their base stat (for hausa) is that of a regular skirm but with lower HP in exchange for higher resistance and speed.

Its basically a cassador that can be available in age 2 (which is kinda where the problem is) where they can snipe vils at 20 range early on

As long as the pop reduction only happens in age 3 or so they would be ok ish

Preach brother, preach!

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They just need to make the Yawon Dandi card (age 3) make outlaws cost -1 pop. Hausa can’t get CIR until age 5 so they kinda lag behind in age 3 and 4, especially at 2 pop.

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im not too crazy about that cause that would mean all three cards that affect outlaws are in age 3 and that is going to be tight as hell

loyal warriors, outlaw combat and yawon dandi are also all shipments that give you no tempo its going to be a very grindy situation

i think the less pop for outlaws should just be an influence costed tech available age 2 at the tower or university, honestly. shouldn’t be locked behind a card when age 3 is already an uphill battle for hausa

I feel that both in the map editor (survives with around 30% hp) and in practice that the corsair marksman is quite a bit stronger than a skirm

Fair point, it would be quite difficult to get all that sent. Maybe it could also be given a cost and send some units with it. If you sent Loyal Warriors first then the cost will be discounted anyways.

I have edited some things and added some new ones, and I still have civs to touch and + nerfs needed with this meta.

What would you change?

it is important to note that there are 2 different corsair markman unit, one for rev and one for hausa.

hausa gets the second one


and it has very much less stats then the rev one .

only the rev one is available in the editor for some reason

now if we give hausa the rev one then it will require some rework but the hausa one I think at best we just need to adjust the range armour a bit

to my knowledge, hausa gets the same one as the revolution and has a hidden age0 tech that adjusts their stats (i think). it may affect their scaling but i’ve not had a change to check

in the files atleast there are 2 separate units

the one sent by the morocco age up is this one

<unit id="2061" name="deAllegianceBarbaryMarksman"> 
 <protoaction>
      <name>VolleyRangedAttack</name>
      <damage>15.000000</damage>
      <damagetype>Ranged</damagetype>
      <maxrange>20.000000</maxrange>
      <rof>3.000000</rof>
    </protoaction>

while the one in the scenario editor is this one

  <unit id="1658" name="deREVBarbaryMarksman">
 <protoaction>
      <name>VolleyRangedAttack</name>
      <damage>17.000000</damage>
      <damagetype>Ranged</damagetype>
      <maxrange>20.000000</maxrange>
      <rof>3.000000</rof>
    </protoaction>

What actually seems to have happened is that they have just removed the deREVBarbaryMarksman from the game and gave the hausa marksman to the revolution
image

which is kinda the worse of both worlds

well thats tremendously disappointing. still, a strong outlaw.

I’ll reiterate: Unless hausa can get corsairs and preferably desert infantry down to 1 pop, all of the civs amazing outlaw bonuses will always be underwhelming in all game modes. I do think ot should be locked behind a tech. I also think one outlaw card should be moved out of age 3, its a little crowded. Maybe the cost reduction could be age 1? It would open up a slightly greedier open in a rush. If it stacks with berber vills (i think it does) it could be a unique way to stretch your influence a bit in a greedy build order too.

they dont have the AbstractNativeWarrior tag sadly

I think loyal warriors could be a good age 4 card tbh since it also reduces cost of shipments and can be good for an industrial sort of timing. that would combo well with all the shadow techs

it seems i have no idea what im talking about today :skull:

Loyal Warriors is way too strong to be age 1 and age 4 is way too late for it to be useful.

The fact that it also discounts shipments means a lot of savings on native, outlaw, and mercenary shipments which makes it quite powerful for timing pushes with shadow teched units. It is strong enough that they moved it from age 2 to 3, but the problem is that a lot of the units it affects are not viable without the cost reduction.

Natives are completely unaffordable even with this card. They need their cost split to be something like 3/4 influence, 1/4 wood.

Outlaws are supposed to be geared towards age 2 play, especially so for the Africans who have age 2 gaps in their rosters. But they’ve nerfed them so many times that they need the cost reduction from this card to be viable.

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yeah back when all the units were stupidly op. Now that desert warriors are less dmg and the shipment is one less the discount would just make the shipment break even instead of being overpriced. I don’t think any age2 shipment would be op with that card anymore.

Shame about the berbers, that would be a fun interaction

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just want to note that the loyal warriors card is shared with Ethiopia (Hausa didnt even have it before iirc) and the reason for it being moved to age 3 had more to do with the age 2 sudanese rush rather then with outlaws.

with the current position of Ethiopia it might be viable to move it back to age 2 but that is to note.

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Really!? They nerfed Dervishes into the ground before they move the card to age 3. I hadn’t really played Hausa before that so I assumed the change was to balance them.

It would be better to just lower the base cost of these units and then make Loyal Warriors an age 2 card that only has a 10% cost reduction. That would be a slight nerf to the shipment cost reduction but would make it actually possible to use natives and outlaws in age 2.

They also need to split the influence cost on natives with something else. Pure influence is too hard to get in age 2 when you need it most but also probably not enough of a cost in the very late game. If natives were ~25% wood (or maybe coin for some) then you could actually have the resources available to make them in age 2. It would also give you something to spend your wood and coin on when you sell a bunch of cows and are low on food.

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