Some Balance Ideas

Increase non elite Arambai training time to 25 seconds.
Remove +2 Bonus damage vs rams.

The idea behind his is that the other player has more time to mass skirms against an all in castle age arambai play. By removing the bonus damage vs rams players are able to prepare an ram push vs the castle. This will force the Burmese player to use other units from their tech tree. For example their monks with cheaper redemption or their strong pikemen.

Siege Workshop cost -100 wood.

This buff should not be the only thing done to the Cumans, but hopefully it will incentivize the Cuman player to build a feudal age siege workshop in some scenarios.

Team bonus farms have double hp.

Everybody knows that the Inca team bonus is pretty much useless. This new team bonus should help for example after a mangonel push in castle age. Normally farm get destroyed very easily. This can help save some wood after such an attack.

either remove husbandry and give elephants 20%ms or remove hussar.

I think the thing that makes Khmer so strong even after the farm nerf is that they are still able to flood hussars better then hussar focused civs. I have two ideas that both should help against it. Since the got hussars only since DE removing them should be fine. They still are able to flood them, but since they are only light cav it should be easier to deal with them. My other approach is to remove husbandry but giving the elephants +20%ms. This could incentivize the players to go for an earlier elephant approach and the civ itself has a bigger focused on elephants then knight or scout line. Maybe it needs both.

commodity trading fee is 15% 10% 5% in the feudal/castle/imperial age.
Archer team bonus damage works only vs Walls.

By making the market bonus to improve over time it help to weakening the all in TaToH rush. By making the team bonus only effective against walls it further nerfs that kind of rush to some extend while also nerfing the Saracen Mayan combo. I think it is fine for that the archers can destroy walls faster, but they shouldn’t be able to destroy the enemy production buildings in feudal age.

That are my ideas for now. My goal is to think of smaller changes that still can improve the civs balance.

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With these nerfs these civs would absolutely need compensation buffs elsewhere.

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Those ideas aren’t half bad. Tho I disagree with the Cuman change, because the feudal siege workshop can be very effective so I think it’s fine if it’s hard to pull off, and I also think the Saracen market bonus should remain at 5%, because it’s their only eco bonus, especially if you nerf their archers, then the Tati rush will be already nerfed.

Khmer already were nerfed hard in this patch for the sake of TG please no more lol
Or didn’t you remember how bad were pre DE.
And just see how these changes work because no matter what but we aren’t going to see new balance for at least three months.


and they are still great in both 1v1 and tgs 11

I know that they still hold up power and the nerf was deserved
Just that some people don’t let the changes breathe

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but are they too strong to the point they need nerfs? i don’t think we can honestly tell after what, 2-3 weeks?

I don’t think we can tell right now, but seeing the tone i tought it was just someone not happy with the first nerf

and yet people are already going after tatars and turks for nerfs. its sad really, neither civ has really been a good civ, ever, and they finally get to do something and people want to nerf them right away.


This would completely break Saracens. The Market bonus is their only Economic bonus, and it is underwhelming as it is, requiring taht the player actually knows how to use it well.
Diminishing it with Age Ups, would make it vastly inferior to Guilds, making saracens a Feudal Rush or die civ.
Peiople already complain about Goths Rush, you just made anotheer civ that has to Rush or be overwhelmed by every other civ in the game.

Siege Archers is also core part of their civ identity.


Arambai got enough nerfs, they don’t need anything now especially the elite one.

Really?! What the hell Saracens have special thing in their eco except their cheap market?! No and big NO to this nerf neither the archers one too.

No need for that, Incas team bonus is fine.

This is too much and it will be very deadly in early feudal rush game

DE slightly buffed them tho, and it’s only the base version that was changed. And seriously this new nerf they got is extremely minor. Even @Gunpowder1337’s nerfs are quite merficul, I think quite a lot of people would propose heavier nerfs like greatly increasing their frame delay or using a mechanic similar to the leitis’ to nerf their damage against buildings.

It’s annoying by making your farms finished before horse collar. That’s not fine.

Oh really?! And what the Burmese have except their UU and early m@a rush with their +1 attack in open maps?! And the UU is not cheap at all, killed by trash, have 20% accuracy, lacking two armor upgrades

And what is the problem with that?! You can delay your farms a little if you researched the horse collar to be completed, is this hard or complicated?!

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because a bonus shouldn’t force you to delay your economy, how is that hard to understand? you used to be able to research horse collar, wait a few seconds, and then throw down your farms. now you got to wait until horse collar is practically done. it upsets the rythym of your normal play, and not in a BENEFICIAL way.


With elite upgrade Arambai have %30 accuracy, non-elite Arambai has %20 accuracy.

Because Arambais mounted, ranged and high attack unit. Spanish Conquistadors has similar attack but Arambais has significantly lower reload time with more attack. Accuracy arguable.

And how many seconds will you keep waiting?! This is not a big deal at all, horse collar takes 20s, and farm takes 15s, 20-15=5s, is this 5s a big deal man?!

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So?! Are you too thinking they need a nerf?!

someone is forgetting what the current incan team bonus does. it reduces farm building by 100%. so it takes 7.5 seconds. to it throws off your build by a good 8 seconds. that is a negative disruption to your gameplay.

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No, I just have explained what is Arambai specialty, if you nerf them they will be worse version of Conquistadors.

Also If you buff Arambai it will effect Conquistadors.

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This few seconds is not a big deal at all, once you located your farms we all equal with our farming rate, and not all people start their farming at the same time because it is not a race bro, i really didn’t see any problem with Incas bonus, and what about Spanish with their 30% building faster?! It is the same argument