Someone on reddit proposed that the first feitoria shouldn’t cost population.
Since it produces like 10 vils, that would be a great lategame eco bonus useful in any situation (not like currently)
They could change the team bonus to free cartho and trade units +20% HP. Still a useless team bonus for 1v1.
Perhaps they should try Feitoria taking 15 pop instead of 20, it could be more viable with the current rates
thats arguably less useful than the current TB
You misunderstood me or I didn’t write it clearly. I want an additional team bonus Effekt here in this idea, not an replacement.
So you want to Portos to have 2 team bonuses?
nothing wrong with that… berbers have 3…
seriously?? as jojo gave reasons for it being good, compare it to something like franks or persians paired with goths, indians, mesos etc who physically cant benefit at all. or the incan bonus (less than 2% faster gather rate and only in dark age) the khmer one is extremely situational for allies, even if its great for khmer themselves
along with your arbalest change i dont think you’ve thought these through…
Witch one is 3d?
They have Genitours, they have Kasbah and?
Viets also have 2. But for them and for Berbers one is Tech, and other is Bonus.
meant to say 2, either way we have 2 races with 2 bonuses… yes 1 has to be researched but it still applies to the whole team… something similar could happen with porto (or whicher races it works with), but saying you cant have 2 bonuses simply to oppose it is wrong
like italians and incas could definitely do with another team bonus, both of theirs are incredibly negligible in the current meta
I would say that the weakest civ is Turks. Portuguese are similar to italians and Koreans, which means very bad.
I like the free ballistics idea (it can be replaced also by cheaper/wood-free university techs which is also historically accurate). Another discussed option is an extension of the gold discount. My feeling is that this is what people want.
Personally, I would like to see portos stronger with their UU: this would add variety to the game. So my personal preferences differ a bit from the ones of the community:
Turks have a very, very strong Castle Age Janissaries + Mangonels push.
Portugese are one of the best on water maps. They completly counter vikings.
They should get some love on land tho. Maybe buff organ gun, i think it was stronger on HD/voobly.
This is not true. With their Dock and Ship discounts, plus Wheelbarrow and Handcart free, Vikings constantly outpace Portuguese in Water maps (on Land maps too, since Vikings get 2 of the most expensive and important Eco upgrades for free).
The only civ that can compete with Vikings on Water, is Italians, and only because the cheaper Techs and Age ups can give them a temporary tech lead, which they can use to cripple the Vikings.
If both get to Post Imperial, then Vikings are by far the best Water civ in the game, and all otehrs will be playing on the backfoot.
They can compete in Feudal becuse they get fires which vikings dont. And they can dominate in Castle thanks to Caravel. Italians dominate Portugese becuse they get Fast fires and die to Vikings becuse of Longboat.
They are probably better on TG water maps and we didnt have that for a while.
Not really, not with how many Galleys the Vikings can put out so fast.
Not oly do Vikings have a Ship discount, they also have a Docks discount, and free Wheelbarrow, which means they can spam Ships much more efficiently than any other naval civ.
Caravels are not worth it in the Castle Age, and until the enemy actually hits a critical mass, they are not worth it when compared to Galleons either.
Caravels are super dependant on your enemy not having Fire Ships, and massing their Fleet in a single compact formation.
They actually have very low DPS, when individually compared to Galleons.
Portugese still can have constant production from multiple Docks like Vikings. I’ve seen many times when a pro came back against Vikings using the Caravels even in the Castle Age.
Viking Ships cannot counter Caravels
This is true. Portuguese are one of the best naval civs. But what people are asking for, is making them closer to Vikings. Currently Vikings (and Italians) have a much higher picking rate. So people are asking for a small buff to make portos competitive in early stages. My proposal was:
Regarding the land, I would like to see a more unique game play. Currently they are just a generic civ with archer preference. I would like to see them more pushed towards the UU. So a organ buff is very welcome, something like more accuracy or more attack vs archers…
I think I have clearly stated that the potential coupled nerf should only come to effect if the new buff is too strong, and we have already concluded that requiring the univ without giving a nerf at the same time woould be a better option. The arbs change is just a toss-up idea as one of the nerf options (and probably not a good one as this will make them even weaker in early imp). I don’t think you have read these through.
I have also explained why free cartography is very useless in the current version in the other reply. Chances are players will need a market in feudal age anyway in both TG and 1v1 for various purposes such as resource balancing or fc as pockets.
Unfortunately, you listed some really bad team bonus examples. Khmers’ team bonus is already decent as a civ bonus alone, making scorps much resistant against mangonel push. The bonus literally makes scorpions a viable option for other siege civs, and that is a huge boost. Franks LOS provides pocket players with much better info gather abilities, and I don’t know anything bad about arson for camel lines from Indians. Whether a team bonus is good or not does not solely depend on the range of its applicability but rather than how effective it can be in real games. If you think a good team bonus has to apply to all 35 civs, then I have bad news for you.
Turks are awful especially in solos because they don’t have incredibly strong gold units that could compensate for their lackluster trash units. It seems stats-wise they are doing meh as below average.
My concerns for more gold discounts are the same as Teutons after 1st buff (more melee armors for infantry only). The gold discount strengthens the already good parts of Porto, aka mid-late imp. in early-mid CA, wood and food are arguably more important resources as you want to keep production going, and in the current meta Porto will be very behind even before heading to imp due to lack of eco upgrades.
Viking docks arent making shpis faster, so no they cannot put out oo many galleys out before fires are there. You need 6 galleys + fletching to even be able to micro fires down and that takes time to build. If you are playing against Portugese you probably need 7 and fletching becuse of extra hp, so your idea that vikings are some kind of awsome water civ in Feudal is just wrong. A lot more often you can see vikings FC into longboats which are countered by caravels.
Well, the problem of pick rates, especially when talking about water civs, is that most of the players are biased, especially in ranked games.
There are a lot of civs that are good on water (japs, portos, saracens, bizz, koreans, malay, persians), this civs have the means to go against italians and viking, even some standard land civs can perfom well on a water map (civs with strong eco bonus like mongols, malians and celts).
Italians and viking are powerful on water, there is no denying that, but people chose them because they have the most straight foward bonus. Their bonus are easier to understand and implement, and because the meta has evolved all around those 2 civs, and there it is the reason why people only pick them (it’s the same problem on land too, just less obvious and evident).
In my opinion, it’s not a problem of balance, yes some changes here and there could be good, but maily the problem is psychological, people have learned that italians and viking are the only viable civs and so they always pick them, they son’t want to use other civs, and the only solution to balance more civs in water maps seem to make other civs even more powerful and straight forward than those 2.
Instead we should try to use more often other civs and develop a meta for them too, trying to experiment with those civs more often, even if they seem weaker than the others.