Therefore the comparison should compare witch kills infantry faster, and yes it’s the mortar
The difference is this, once the first volley of two goes off the falcs loose half of their damage output because there are half the amount of falcs as there were before, so he mortar keeps its full damage output even after the first volley witch is something no other age 3 artillery can do
Well the thing about retaining damage output from being on unit instead of two as a mentioned above but that’s about it, not like Ethiopia has good anti cav or anything, oh wait. they have a better version of the ashigaru musk neftenia is just the ashi with range resist and more range…
mortar kills infantry faster, 2 falconets can actually kill other artillery as well as infantry and being more mobile, it all balances out. You can also train more falconets if need be, the mortar is often a 1 time thing for ethiopia and if it’s killed that’s game over, their ff relies on it.
I understand your point that if 1 falc is lost that’s damage halved, however you can often surprise an opponent with a cav flank, if they do that on the mortar it’s dead but vs falcs if they’re seperated you might be able to save 1 of them, so it balances out, 1 benefit for 1 negative. Easier to lose 1 mortar, easier to keep at least 1 falc alive.
I’m sure you mean the gascenya, not the neftenya? Neftenya is the skirm. The gascenya have no range resist, they have 20% melee resist the same as every musk. They do have the same speed as the ashigaru but also 35hp less, these cost wood too which is never preferable to gold as it gathers slower. Ethiopia also have no archer/skirm age 2, all ethiopia have is a musk and a kind of coyote runner until age 3.
Sorry I meant anti ranged cav because you mentioned goons I don’t think I made that clear
And then I forgot to mention that I was talking about a separate unit when mentioning the ashigaru musk.
This contradicts this:
If you do the ff your also going to want to send the 4 organ guns so it’s not game over until all of them are dead.
The javelins are good against musks in age 2 so the not having an archer doesn’t matter a lot, correct me if I am wrong but I’m pretty sure the total amount of resources for the ashi is more, and range is a huge deal, one of the main things that make the ashi amazing is that they have the speed to kill skirms, Ethiopia takes that idea even further by increasing the range to also help killing skirms.
I was replying to what others are saying that apparently 2 falconets don’t beat the mortar, imo they do, yes there’s a slight range difference but many artillery have that issue like the gatlings/organs vs falcs, and the mortar does literally 50 damage vs a falconet, either way the falconets can just go about cleaning up the gascenya because the mortar is useless vs them.
Well dragoons are always ok against musks, because they’re not countered but you need a reasonable mass and they’re 65 food 50 gold each, so 1 for 1 they should beat a musk. If you spend that much res on javelins then you’re going to have a much smaller mass of gescenya.
I just don’t feel that the mortars op at all, it’s res cost is in line with an age 3 shipment, it’s basically as strong as 2 falcs while being slightly better vs infantry at the cost of being useless vs artillery, it’s got the benefit of not unpacking at the cost of having a really slow general speed. All positives and negatives that balance out.
If the gascenya or the javelin make it too hard to take out then the issue is with them having too good anti-cav, not the mortar itself which I’ve mentioned before that the jav rider probably does need a slight hp nerf but nothing crazy. Also if you change the mortar to having the same siege range as it’s regular range then you have the issue that regular euro mortars out range culverin but this 1 would not, making it quite useless late game like in treaty for example.
You have to keep in mind that the new civs were designed without reliable access to cannon, so units must make up for it, similar to the way japan is designed.
So if you are expecting dramatic nerfs, these won’t come. There will some adjustments, but I believe overall things will be ok.
African civs already have much greater access to cannons than any other non-European civ. And in age 2 almost nobody had cannons, so that additional range is a huge advantage. If you want to make up for the lack of cannons with range (which I don’t think it’s a good idea), that range bonus can come later, such as with a veteran upgrade.
I understand your point, but they do only get 1, so maybe it gets a slight nerf in age 3 then shadowtechs upon reaching age 4, they need to be careful though because if it gets nerfed too hard it’ll become useless, it’s already useless vs artillery and these civs don’t have easy access to more cannons or culvs to stop enemy falcs, only at huge cost.
They can only get cannon via influence, and influence isn’t readily available. It is indeed easier for them than say China or Japan, but still not as easy as the average euro civ.
I strongly believe the mortar is fine. The problem lies with some of the units near it.
As you can see from the recent japan nerfs, devs are reluctant to nerf the units that make up for cannons.I believe that same approach will be used here.
ethiopia and the african units are all overtuned; so what I hope they do is take the tuning process ONE STEP AT A TIME. I know this approach will make the africian lame for a long time (like sweden was…) but taking it a step at a time will allow for more careful redesigning.
IMO leave the big boy alone FOR NOW with the only small change being make it cost 250 influence and make it take 60 sec to ship. I think a better focus for both the African civs is to address the Tower units (increasing the costs and giving them the proper tags to in order to take bonus dmg from minutemen and spies)
Correct the cow shipments from semi being 250f to 200f each.
Change the age 2 6 raider card into 5 raiders.
Change the age 2 10 merc musk into 6 merc musk
Church base xp/influence rate goes up to .8/s from .75/s and likewise the TC and palac adjacent to a church grants an additional. 8/s up from .75/s.
Change the griot to cost 50c down from 125c. Add the aura as a standard. Combine the age 1 griot upgrade card with age 3 upgrade into an age 3 that enlarges the aoe and increase the max griot to 10.
Correctly have griots effect increase all building productivity to include tps churches granary.
Maigadi are too expensive. Change initial price down to 160 influence. And with age 2 card change cost to 100c 60 influence. Also change the merci dmg multiplier to 2x from 1.5x and apply the bonus to melee dmg as well.
Allow fields to either passively generate influence in the same way the age 4 card can make fields produce wood OR outright allow fields to be tasked to producing influence at a respectful rate than can be upgraded. Both civs lack a late game consistent source of influence production and hausa is much more dependent on influence. Also the base rate at which livestock generate influence can be doubled. Currently a tradepost is 2.7 times more efficacious generating influence than a base sanga cattle cost for cost in terms of villager seconds. If the base influence generation rate were doubled it would still be less efficient than a tradepost but at least the cattle farming vibes with the construct of the civ.
These changes would nerf the hausa rush and strength the concept behind the hausa which I perceived is gold heavy, influence heavy, merc, native speciality base building civ.
Edit
The griot is actually a useless unit without cards… 10% production is just to low to be impactfully especially for a 125 initial coin cost. I rather the price remain the same and the production go up to 25% with all the other suggestions. Currently the unit predominantly goes unused outside of treaty in my observation.
Nope. Hell no. This would make them tremendously OP.
The whole point to influence is that you cannot reliably get it and you cannot gather it as if it was just another resource. If you would get influence that easily, you’d be able to spam cannons, the ridiculously powerful double armor units and spam freely upgraded mercs and natives, not to mention the very good upgrades you get via alliances.
Hausa already has a very easy time getting influence, due to free livestock with shipments, universities requiring little map control. Influence bottlenecking is literally the only thing keeping a semblance of balance in affrican late game.
clearly u didn’t read my suggestion in context since I asked this ability to produce influence come into play late game. I’ve watched a few treaty games and seen flooky arguably one of the best if not THE BEST treaty player RUN OUT OF INFLUENCE after purposely choosing a deck and working a macro to maximize his influence pool.
I read exactly what you said. A bad idea regardless of which player run into the issue. You are supposed to handle your influence with care. Making it trivial will just make them super broken into the late game.
Anyway, they are nerfing influence prices as well in PUP, so the devs are doubling down on making influence harder to get rather than easier. If they wanted influence to be just a 4th resource, they would probably have not added it.
I feel like I need to make a pretty simple statement here regarding influence units. Every single influence cost unit shadowtechs for free. Aging to imperial age gets you
imperial mortars
imperial falcs
imperial culvs
and these 3 upgrades alone are worth more value combined than the entirety of the cost of ageing up. 1500w 1500c upgrades for everyone else, you get 9000 res of artillery upgrades, instantly. this ignores all the other spam of units, heavy cannon, canoneers, ethiopia mortars, everything. Every. Single. Unit. is 3000 res you don’t spend upgrading. Please, you don’t need spammed influence to be competitive
