Sooo a Dev got Inca Trushed, Defended Horribly, Rage quit, then made these balance changes

sorry but I’ll believe the pros opinion over yours.

So you just “build more military” to defend? If he steals one boar, goes up at 16 pop (as you do when doing this strategy), you can’t do anything. It’s not a question of “doing the right thing”, there just is nothing you can do, the game is over before feudal.

Look at Salicum, the most notorious guy using this strategy. He’s literally 17xx with meta strats (look up his profile on aoe2.net, he tried playing other strategies after qualifying for HC4), but manages to reach 2k1 with Noboru rush.

Nicov’s description that it “needs very little execution/skill to work well, whereas the defender needs to play like an absolutely flawless beast to have a chance to deal with it” seems very apt.

I’ve played Salicum as well, I know I’m the better player, I know exactly what he’s going to do, but still it’s extremely difficult…

I disagree. You need a Blacksmith, 100 food, sacrifice vill time to do what? Blocking resources you can take elsewhere? Cmon. With archer you can deny towers easily or atleast force a lot of towers. Just scout for neutral gold too and move your base elsewhere…

The whole “Towers are OP” crybabies are so pathetic to me because they can’t execute their 20 knights at 20 minutes because they collapse under the APM requirements of a “messy” game. “Uhhh i can only win with Franks going 6 scouts into knights which I learned for 3 days so I can do it blindfolded”. Well if you can’t do anything else maybe you shouldn’t be in that elo

The sad part is that the devs choose to support the weak by nerfing towers in DE completely making balance fall apart. Trushes were easily defended back then (except that 50% faster towers for Koreans) and now its just a troll strat

4 Likes

I’m so divided about this. Inca trush was obnoxious to play against (I, personally, never had problems against it tho) but at the same time it gave a unique identity to the civ without going into crazy gimmickies.
I just don’t know what to think about this.

And it was a noob bashing strat before. Also (except for incas) an all-in strat, much too volatile in both directions.
Trush was toxic for the whole community as it made life for newer players awkward, because there are some players who do nothing else than trush-troll-bash them. I’m glad this is now adressed.

And the inca trush is also hard to deal with at higher elos, as it is much harder to make a counter raid, too. Many standard anti-trush strats just don’t work with incas because of that silly bonus.

This is literally the same with anything. People will only ever play one or two stupid rushes, no matter the civ chosen

Dude, that’s a direct quote from a 2k4 player. I believe he knows way better than me or you how the game works 11

I wish I could give two likes on this post. Tower rushes were not some insane next level thing to defend from. It’s just that people who like to stick to their build orders don’t like it when it falls apart.

And? There is plenty of footage of other pros successfully defeating tower rushes on youtube.

Clearly the experts on the official forums know best. Incan vill rush is just another strategy, easy to defend if you do the right things. If a pro says it can be almost impossible to do anything against it in some situations, clearly that’s just because he likes “sticking to his build orders” too much. Probably the forum experts are much better in messy games than that pro.

2 Likes

The fact that people won games against an inca rush doesn’t change one bit what he said. You are
saying that there a direct counter:

While it is simply not true. There’s no direct counter to an inca rush, you go for archers simply because m@a sucks against it. And when you go for archers the problem still stands, because for a straight archers build you go up ay 22 pop, while for an inca rush you go up at 17/18/19 pop (the latter very rarely). Those alone are 2 min of advantage + the time it takes to build your first archery + blacksmith (because yes, without fletching incas vills do not die) and make archers. If your map is bad, by the time you make it to that point you are dead.
If i see a scout, i can make spears. If i see archers, i can make a couple of skirms. If i scout an inca rush and my map sucks i’m most likely dead, because militia/m@a don’t kill those vills and my only chance lies in archers, which ofc are countered by towers. Usually against a trush, if the tower being placed is really problematic, you can pull your own vills. Against an inca rush you can’t. Where’s the direct counter against this strat other than “let’s hope my res gen is good” and “i hope he doesn’t make any eagle to scout the eco i just relocated”? Because if a 2k4 fails to see it must be hidden very well.

Edit: and, btw, their trush is still prolly the better one around along with the spanish one, it won’t simply be broken because your vills can’t die 11

1 Like

Don’t forget Koreans.

this is why you lose to it

And with this answer we can clearly see why Nicov is wrong, right?

2 Likes

poopy-pants?
20 characters

1 Like

Sounds like a good change, in my opinion. Incas have other uniqueness to them with the slinger and kamayuk, perhaps they should explore that a bit more.

The risky bit about tower rushing is that you expose your eco and may lose the vills you send forward… However for the Incas, there a much smaller counterplay opportunity as risks are greatly reduced.

A counter attack with 3-4 military wont do much damage, having a vill fight (very common trush defense) will always go in favour of Incas and even hitting the fwd vills with military is tough and require a small mass of army you may not have the time to put together.

When an inca trushes you with like 5+ vills, they can’t go up. Wall into your TC from the flanks, protect the important resources as best you can with a tower if it’s liable to the trush pressure (or drop a market) and go Castle. You should have the better economy because your opponent is 5 idle + the vills necessary to mine stone aren’t gathering advancement resources. Once you get to any siege the Incan trush falls apart.

it’s irrelevant because they’re just going to rip the lungs out of it, so whatever.

For the most part, these aren’t really giving them an edge over choosing Mayans or Incas in 1v1. These are more likely to matter in team games.

Anyway, thanks for your analysis in the other thread, was refreshing to read a well thought through analysis.

This is yet another proof that AOE2 competitive scene should be reduced to Arabia or arena with full tech tree unlocked and no unique units and techs. The only thing you pick is architecture and voiceover. Everyone plays the exact same civ (or just one civ really), so start to finish goes exactly the same. No variety means less excitement but absolutely fair playground. Skill and strat means everything and everyone can always find a counter to a strat.

Yes, I’m ranting, but to make civs more and more Similar, at some point all civs would be the same (infinitely converging). Devs don’t need to do much, they just tweak Full Tech a bit to accomodate, minimum work and forever Shuts down issues like Inca feudal tower rush. If there are too many snowflake players bickering, this is the way to go.

1 Like

There was no risk of raidings, two towers with those armored vills is enough to keep the town safe, also the inca users will abuse market to later spam ews, the strategy was really lame, unfair advantage with the rush, cheap towers, hard to raid and kill vills, then deal with cheap ews and more towers or mangos, trushers usually don’t need too much economy(so less vills to raid), they just abuse market to fix their eco and go up, such strategies decreases the quality of the game at every single aspect.

Anyway the strategy will fade away and the elo inflation on their users.

But the problem of inca trush is not it beeing imbalanced. Pros can live with it perfectly well. The problem is that the strategy overshadows the entire civilization.

And i hope you realize how stupid your rant sounds.

This one is a bad argument. A lot of people who complain about this strategy do so because they didn’t learn how to handle it. So arguably their elos are also inflated.