Spain has all the Age 2 options most other civs get, and get faster shipments.
Spain is actually great for Age 2 play specially with Unction as an Age 2 card.
If the 900f 2 pike plus 20% is too strong or not consistent with the pace and theme for Spain then I suggest changing the 20% wood reduction on arachiac units to adding 2 extra attack to all xbows and 1 extra attack to pike damage. So pike go from 8 to 9 handttack and xbows go from 16 to 18 range attack.
This age up attack bonus would be serious age 2 aggression. 1 standard musk would die in 7 xbow hits instead of 8 and 1 Hussar would still require 8 strikes…
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… please list your elo…
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No.
It is irrelevant. This is nopt Starcraft 2, everyone can understand all the intricacies of AoE3 gameplay, and perform all micro tricks.
Make the 900f age up give 2 pikes upon age up 15% reduction on wood cost for arachiac units AND 2 attack to all arachiac dmg!!
They can always come back and scale it differently to find a good balance of reduction cost and dps
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you’re wrong, everyone on paper can appreciate concepts but EXPRIENCE differentiates conceptual viability vs actuality.
Skill for skill on a nontp/nonwater map Spain will be crushed in an age 2 prolong fights vs India inca brit Japan French Port Russia China Sweden dutch Lakota…
At high level Spain can only stabilize in age 2 vs Aztec Germany ottoman…
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Lol, no. Ports and China are literally the worst Age 2 civs in the game.
Germans are also awful in Age 2 because no Musk or early Skirm.
Spain is better, in Age 2, than Ports and China, having quite a few more viable options, specially Rods and Unction, both opf which are stronger in Age 2 than anything Ports, China or Germans can do.
correction ports should not be on the age 2 list. China remains on the age 2 list as they get age 2 unit upgrades that make their comp very efficient.
Umction does not work as simply as you suggest at high level. The 1 monk is worth 5% dmg bonus, so you’ll need a church and 2 more monks JUST to equate to other civs standard 15% age 2 attack bonus cards. Keep in mind it requires more APM and micro to keep your monks involved and not get them killed.
The civ is already scratches the bottom of the barrel for eco so it can’t afford to pop a 10 monk buff early in an age 2 aggression without significantly reducing your mass.
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True, but you also have Cards to send to make your Rods, Pikes or Hussars get that 15% too. 2 Missionaries with Unction + 8 Rods or 5 Hussars, can get so many Vill kills, it is insane.
Cina’s upgrade cards for Age 2 are not very good, their good cards are more in Age 3. It is also worth noticing that Spain will have all it’s Age 1 and 2 shipments out way before any other civ.
People really have to start getting comfortable with fast shipments, because that is Spain’s main strength.
China will be 2-3 shipments behind, in almost all cases, if both players play well.
Also, 2 of their 3 Age 2 Banner Armies are useless, with only Old Han being good, before Fortress Age upgrades.
Mongolian Scourge really does not do much for baseline Steppe Riders or Keshiks.
I think you’re missing the point to why Spain has no viable age 2 play vs the original versatile civ previously mentioned.
Spain has sooner shipments yes but at 72% it only shakes out to about 4 ships for Spain to regular civs 3… so you’re not THAT ahead on shipments to close the gap for what Spain lacks in age 2, which are ECO!!! and early STRONG aggression.
Spain military shipments work best to counter early aggression than it does to establish it. This is why Spain FF is soooo strong, at the highest levels of play you can know Spain is ff but if the player executes well he will defend a rush well and still age up.
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Spain has 3 Vills, 4 Vills and 5 Vills shipments. It also has 700 Wood and 700 Gold, and all the necessary gathering boost card.
Spain has way better Age 2 Eco than most civs in the game.
It also has Rodeleros, which are faster and earlier Halberdiers, and Unction in Age 2, so it has the “Strong aggression” too.
You just cannot do both as Spain, because no other civ can aswell, it is either Boom or Rush, so you have to pick.
But Spain can absolutely do both alongside the best Boom and Rush civs in the game.
This is why I asked about elo… if you are palying vs brit for example and you age up with a standard 15vil no tp, brit will likely age up same time with 17vil. Once you’re both up you as Spain will have 1 and a half shipments qued up meanwhile brit will only have 1. So say you both send 700w…
Spain takes that would and the only eco you can establish is market upgrades hunting steel traps (if you tower age up), placer mines and first wood upgrade, you can build a church and a few houses along with a military building
Meanwhile brit would have done all the same things you just did but by the time he hit age 2 he would likely have already built 2 to 3 manors in transition and the 700w of his would allow for even more manors… how exactly do you plan to keep up brit in age 2 eco war??
The same applies for inca and sweden and Japan. French is a bit slower than the previous mentioned but muuch faster than Spain in age 2 eco. German have a strong age 2 eco but the no musk gives Spain a chances.
By the time you get your 2nd age 2 shipment its already going down hill for Spain in terms of eco vs the civs mentioned above.
Again this is another reason why Spain FF is most viable strat bc the speed of the shipments allow for an age 3 timing vs these strong age 2 eco civs… but trying to play land eco without tp vs the civs mentioned will end up in a lost each time skill for skill as each civ mentioned has either stronger eco or both stronger eco and strong units.
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also wrong. No one is saying we want a civ that can be ultra aggressive at the same time its booming (cough japan cough…), I’m asking for versatility which in RTS allows for unpredictable play.
Inca can native rush or boom. Brits can be aggressive with strong musk or boom. Aztec can be very very aggressive or go for a later age up timing. German can tower rush or heavy raid then age or stay age 2 for a prolong time vs another age 2 civ. French can do all things. I hope you seeing the picture I’m painting. These other civs have viable options at high level play. Spain does NOT have these options outside water/tp line maps.
Rod are not good AGGRESSIVE units… why do you keep mentioning them? A group of rods even with a surround on a mass of unupgraded muskets will evaporate…
Rod do best to soak and collide vs other units to protect your cannons or skirms or xbow mass.
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You are comparing it to British now, which are a better Boom civ than Spain, but not a better Age 2 civ anywhere.
China and Ports are worse than Spain in Age 2, and Brits have to send Virginia Company and gather more Wood than Spain to Boom, or else they will actually fall behind, because tehir Houses are more expensive and take much longer to build.
Spain can even outpace British, though it is hard, because Brits are the Boom civ by dafult, of the original lineup.
However, Spanish can still beat Brits in Age 2, specially when Longbowmen suck before the Veteran upgrade, and Musks or Hussars cannot deal with Rods.
That is speed is exactly the strength of Spain, and Spain can use it in Age 2.
You can also Age up with 500 Food or (my personal favourite) 2 Vills + 2 Cows. Spain gets a lot of Vills, fast, and a lot of shipments even faster.
Use those shipments to outpace the Brits, which is not only doable, but actually easy.
I would even go so far as to say that Spain gets crushed by Brits, in Age 3, when the 20 Houses are out and Brits just steamroll everyone with Mass Musk and their impressive upgrade cards.
Most civs in the game have no versatility, so this is the wrong game to ask for that.
Brits always Boom, Ports always go FF into Caçador + Dragoon, Ottomans always go for Janissaries in Age 2…
Only “versatile” civs are the OP Japan, Sweden, Inca and to a lesser extent, India (because of a lot of Age 2 unit options).
Everyone else gets ONE gameplan, and that is it.
This is the price the game design pays for “unique” civs, compared to other AoE games.
No they cannot. Germans have the worst Age 2 in the game, Zweihanders are overly expensive trash that gets focused down before they even attack once, and Uhlans get destroyed by even a whiff of anti-Cav.
Listen guy…sigh kaiserklein twitch has some brit videos you can watch. You don’t need that house card to boom… and why on earth you think age 2 brit isn’t military stronger than Spain age 2 military? I can’t understand you at all… 172 he brit musk vs your 162 hp rod?? Or maybe the 26 musk attack vs your 23 musk attack? Or 12 rod hand attack? 17 attack 22 range 1.5 rate of fire long bow vs your 16 attack 16 range 3 ROF xbow? Where exactly does age 2 Spain beat brit age 2?
This similar comparison can be done for india sweden japan.
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Brit Musks melt to Spain Crossbows, with Archaic Infantry cards.
(had to go ingame, because the Wiki does not have the cards updated, but now they affect Crossbow too)
You need to use your cards a lot, as Spain. Which is why you get them faster, on a balance perspective.
The OP civs, alongside Inca.
from hearing you talk i can guess you have a ranking in the mid 400s to 500s. None of the stuff you saying will work at ranks 300 and below.
Anyways back to the concensus on Spain at high level. Age 2 Spain is only currently viable on water and tp line. Otherwise its a rouse for a delayed age 3 timing.
I think the community of Spain players would appreciate if Spain got some level of age 2 love as that would help switch it up AND HELP Spain in team games.
My vote is for the 900f age up to provide 2 pike and 15-20% reduction on wood cost for arachiac units and an attack bonus of 12+% for those arachiac units.
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You’ve not played at high levels is why you think a card like that works early in 1v1…
At best that card would help in 1v1 late game in huge remassing fights where hopefully… Spain will have a stable eco to reestablish the mass.
If you sent that card early say in transition to age 2 with a 500f age up. You would get your first batch out faster but bc you sent that card in transition you won’t have a 2nd card to send in age 2 to get your 600w…
If you 16vil up with early tp and sent that arachaic card in transition you would have another shipment to send 600w after the 700w… but you’d be behind in timing vs most these eco civs.
So in either situation you end up with the same amount of units around the same time… but no eco to remass them or you get much faster early batch but no eco to sustain and remass.
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Schneider, I agree 100%.
Rods are not good for aggression as they have very low siege and low base attack (bad at raiding)
Spain I’d argue has the least potential for raiding in age2 of any civ which is key to countering boom civs because they lack 3 hussar.
Because Spain has no access to quartermaster they have to chop for TP and or rax or stable which decreases their resources for spending on units, which leaves them even further behind. The fact is Spanish age 2 can never outmass France, Brits, Japan, Sweden and rods melt like butter to musks.
I propose some or all of the following:
- making Spain get shipments slightly faster
- giving them 3 huss shipment (taking away 6 rod).
- Give Spain quartermaster
- Substitute age2 mayan spearman for a ranged native unit (seminole tupi or carib?)
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They have said some time before they want to keep the rod pike hand attack units theme for Spain age 2 so they won’t give cav nor range inf shipments. Also they aren’t likely to give Spain an eco age up.
This is why I’m arguing for an aggressive age 2 option. One that can leverage the faster shipments in age 2.
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