# Split the militia line into two units **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [November 26, 2024, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719 "2024-11-26T09:28:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Pradyumna](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/pradyumna/32/135362_2.png) [@Pradyumna](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Pradyumna)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 1:32am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/21 "2024-12-01T01:32:29Z")
Definitely yes, but the name should change and the stats should change what ever they change into, like the bengalis rathas change into knights and CA militia should have repairman, builder, shield and also attack. I agree with both of you. We cannot completely disagree with one person’s views. I hope its in the forums’ ethics. ---
**Author:** ![Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mahazona/32/213405_2.png) [@Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Mahazona)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 2:16am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/22 "2024-12-01T02:16:16Z")
> [@Skadidesu](#): > > The Hand Cannon is totally out of place Crimean goths survived for a long time after spain. > [@Skadidesu](#): > > historically since they were living in the Steppes When did they live on the steppes? ---
**Author:** ![MUTYLATOR5553](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mutylator5553/32/115284_2.png) [@MUTYLATOR5553](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MUTYLATOR5553)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2024, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/23 "2024-12-01T21:29:41Z")
> [@Skadidesu](#): > > Are Danes supposed to be renamed Vikings or a new civ? Brand new civ > [@Skadidesu](#): > > How would that unit be called in the German version of the game though? > It’s literally just “knight”. Sächsischer Ritter ---
**Author:** ![Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/skadidesu/32/172243_2.png) [@Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Skadidesu)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 7:37am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/24 "2024-12-02T07:37:25Z")
> [@Mahazona](#): > > Crimean goths survived for a long time after spain. They were relatively insignificant there and also not particularly known for using gunpowder. With this logic you could also give Aztecs and Mayans gunpowder and practically ever other civilisation since almost none went fully extinct. The Goths are clearly designed as an very early Medieval civilisation not one for the late Middle Ages. > [@Mahazona](#): > > When did they live on the steppes? You answered your own question in the same post already. You know where Crimea is and what type of landscape this area has? The only reason why modern Crimea and Ukraine is not as much of a steppe anymore is channels build in the 20th century. Now southern Ukraine and Crimea are returning back into steppes because that irrigation infrastructure is heavily damaged or destroyed. Before crossing into the Roman Empire the Goths started to use a lot of cavalry but not like they were having particularly strong cavalry though. That’s why a supporting cavalry units like a Mounted Slinger makes sense. It can replace the role of the Hand Cannon and it would make the Goths army composition more interesting. > [@MUTYLATOR5553](#): > > Sächsischer Ritter What could be the unique feature of this unit? There are not many European cavalry UUs and cavalry UUs often hate the issue that they are kinda worse then the Knight. The Knight is a super strong unit in AoE2, probably even the best unit line in the game. So you can’t make a UU that is stronger then the knight or it will instantly be completely OP, but if it’s worse then the knight then why would you even train it at all? ---
**Author:** ![Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mahazona/32/213405_2.png) [@Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Mahazona)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 9:12am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/25 "2024-12-02T09:12:12Z")
> [@Skadidesu](#): > > They were relatively insignificant there and also not particularly known for using gunpowder. Everybody in europe used gunpowder weapons around this time.Goths are fine with guns and replacing a foot unit with a mounted one dosent make any sense either. ---
**Author:** ![Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/skadidesu/32/172243_2.png) [@Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Skadidesu)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/26 "2024-12-02T09:23:44Z")
I very much disagree with that. The Goths are clearly only designed around the early Medieval civilisation they even got Dromons to replace their Cannon Galleons now. If the Goths can have Hand Cannons then why not the Romans? There are still surviving ancestors of them today (Italians). This logic applies to basically every civilisation besides maybe the Huns. It is just wrong that the only fully upgraded unit of the Goths is a gun powder unit. How picks the Goths thinking about that tiny Byzantine vassal state on Crimea instead of the huge armies and kingdoms of the early middle ages? Also if you want to make any scenario where Goths appear in you practically always have to disable Hand Cannons via triggers because they certainly did not use them against Rome. But that leaves you without any good unit to counter Infantry since Goths are missing Thumb Ring, Parthian Tactics and Arbalester. Giving them a Slinger would give them an Anti Infantry unit that makes sense historically and would fit into then AoE2 logic since Incan Slingers are also a Hand Cannon replacement. But since Incan Slingers exist the Goth unit would need to be different in some way to be interesting enough. The Mounted Slinger would become their Castle Unique unit while the Huskarl is available in the Barracks from the beginning but with reduced stats. Anarchy is replaces with a technology that restores the full stats of the Huskarl. ---
**Author:** ![SirT\_Efaisto](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/sirt_efaisto/32/166567_2.png) [@SirT\_Efaisto](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SirT_Efaisto)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 1:37pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/27 "2024-12-02T13:37:07Z")
Instead of the mounted slinger, what about the staff slinger? More range than the Incan slinger, but less accurate. Possibly more base damage. ---
**Author:** ![Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/skadidesu/32/172243_2.png) [@Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Skadidesu)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/28 "2024-12-02T13:45:03Z")
Staff slingers are not really associated with Goths. They should be a unique or regional unit for other civs in my opinion. I don’t think a mounted slinger is the most “Goth” like unit either but not sure what would fit better that is not too similar to an existing unit or doesn’t look like it should do bonus damage vs. Infantry. Something that does pierce damage at range with bonus damage vs. Infantry but not a siege unit. Something to fight those Jaguar Warriors, Samurai, Teutonic Knights, or various strong Champions (like Slavic ones) without gunpowder. ---
**Author:** ![Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mahazona/32/213405_2.png) [@Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Mahazona)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/29 "2024-12-02T14:28:57Z")
Maybe this thing? [https://www.barbarusbooks.de/english/artikel/throwing-cross/](https://www.barbarusbooks.de/english/artikel/throwing-cross/) Or the most easiest thing would be to give them some kind of archer unit. ---
**Author:** ![TommoChocolate](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/tommochocolate/32/197278_2.png) [@TommoChocolate](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TommoChocolate)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 6:47am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/30 "2024-12-03T06:47:02Z")
I agree with removing gunpowder units from Goths, but I’m not so keen on giving them a new cavalry unit. As well as Goths they also represent (or at least stand in for) Anglo-Saxons, who hardly used cavalry at all. So I’d prefer a foot unit personally. It could be distinguished from the Inca slinger by being a trash unit, trained in the archery range, and only available in the Imperial Age. Not sure about a replacement for bombard cannon – maybe they don’t need one, especially since that would give them three unique units. > [@Mahazona](#): > > Maybe this thing? > [Throwing Cross - barbarusbooks.de](https://www.barbarusbooks.de/english/artikel/throwing-cross/) This seems to be a late medieval German thing, nothing to do with the Goths. ---
**Author:** ![Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mahazona/32/213405_2.png) [@Mahazona](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Mahazona)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 6:54am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/31 "2024-12-03T06:54:21Z")
> [@TommoChocolate](#): > > This seems to be a late medieval German thing, nothing to do with the Goths. I agree but doubt Goths would have something unique in the ranged side.So a closest thing we can have is a german thing. ---
**Author:** ![Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/skadidesu/32/172243_2.png) [@Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Skadidesu)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 8:03am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/32 "2024-12-03T08:03:44Z")
> [@TommoChocolate](#): > > As well as Goths they also represent (or at least stand in for) Anglo-Saxons, who hardly used cavalry at all. The reason why I want to make the Huskarl a regional unit is so that it can be shared with a new Saxon civ that represents the Anglo Saxons and the Continental Saxons of the early Middle Ages. > [@TommoChocolate](#): > > Not sure about a replacement for bombard cannon – maybe they don’t need one, especially since that would give them three unique units. Oh right I forgot they have access to that unit too. That really makes little sense too. A rework of the Milita Line would need a bigger rework of the Goths anyway. Currently -30% cost in Castle Age is not OP but if Infantry wasn’t shit it would be. Maybe there could be a unit that counters both Siege and Infantry. Some kind of slinger, throwing weapon unit would make sense to have bonus damage vs. both Siege and Infantry in my opinion. > [@Mahazona](#): > > I agree but doubt Goths would have something unique in the ranged side.So a closest thing we can have is a german thing. They used throwing axes and spears. The spears are already represented by the Skirmisher Line but they could get a axe throwing UU. But how to make then thematically distinct from the Frank one? ---
**Author:** ![KHANATTILA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/khanattila/32/30722_2.png) [@KHANATTILA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KHANATTILA)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/33 "2024-12-03T09:37:07Z")
> [@Mahazona](#): > > Everybody in europe used gunpowder weapons around this time.Goths are fine with guns and replacing a foot unit with a mounted one dosent make any sense either. Absolutely not. The design of the Goths absolutely annoys me. > [@Skadidesu](#): > > Also if you want to make any scenario where Goths appear in you practically always have to disable Hand Cannons via triggers because they certainly did not use them against Rome. But that leaves you without any good unit to counter Infantry since Goths are missing Thumb Ring, Parthian Tactics and Arbalester. As if it were a problem. I mean, the Poles have no caunter to the cavalry: no halberdiers, no camels, no unique units with bonus damage. > [@Skadidesu](#): > > Giving them a Slinger would give them an Anti Infantry unit that makes sense historically and would fit into then AoE2 logic since Incan Slingers are also a Hand Cannon replacement. Actually all ancient civilisations should have Slingers for realism but I don’t think it is necessary ---
**Author:** ![Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/skadidesu/32/172243_2.png) [@Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Skadidesu)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/34 "2024-12-03T10:00:04Z")
> [@KHANATTILA](#): > > As if it were a problem. I mean, the Poles have no caunter to the cavalry: no halberdiers, no camels, no unique units with bonus damage. But their main units themselves are Cavalry so they are not weak to cavalry since Cavalry doesn’t counter cavalry. The strongest bonuses for Cavalry we have are things like Franks Paladins having just +12 HP compared to a fully upgraded one while Armenians get +30 HP on their Fully upgraded Champions, even the Viking ones get +14 HP. Infantry is mostly countered by soft counters. If you miss out on a few upgrades to your Archers their damage against the Milita Line goes down dramatically while Pikeman have massive amounts of anti cavalry bonus damage. A fully upgraded Crossbow does 3 damage against a Champion while a Arbalester does 4. That is -25%. And without Thumbring you lose even more DPS. > [@KHANATTILA](#): > > Actually all ancient civilisations should have Slingers for realism but I don’t think it is necessary In Chronicles Infantry should be stronger since it was stronger in Ancient times. So adding a generic counter would make sense. ---
**Author:** ![AbuzzJam4677680](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/abuzzjam4677680/32/55419_2.png) [@AbuzzJam4677680](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AbuzzJam4677680)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/35 "2024-12-03T10:14:56Z")
> [@Skadidesu](#): > > Giving them a Slinger would give them an Anti Infantry unit that makes sense historically Historically, slinger was more anti-archer like in aoe1 actually. Slingers can carry shield and have a bit longer range. There is a type of sling, dart slinger to counter heavy armoured infantry. ---
**Author:** ![KHANATTILA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/khanattila/32/30722_2.png) [@KHANATTILA](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KHANATTILA)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 10:15am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/36 "2024-12-03T10:15:41Z")
> [@Skadidesu](#): > > But their main units themselves are Cavalry so they are not weak to cavalry since Cavalry doesn’t counter cavalry. The Poles actually suck in Imperial against the strong cavalry civilisations. Because they don’t really have anything against Paladins, that’s one of the reasons why they prefer to play an aggressive game in Castle age (as do the Aztecs for that matter) this way you ensure that you have more knights than your opponent has paladins, so you can take favourable fights. > [@Skadidesu](#): > > The strongest bonuses for Cavalry we have are things like Franks Paladins having just +12 HP compared to a fully upgraded one while Armenians get +30 HP on their Fully upgraded Champions, even the Viking ones get +14 HP. The same meta discourse should apply to the Goths, but they are strange. They’ve been balanced to be strong in Imperial, with HCs, bombards, +10 max pop space, and two unique techs involving unit spam. So to complicate their lives they removed the stone walls, just to make it harder to do a passive full boom. The economic bonus on deer & co. is very recent. But in reality they should be more like the Aztecs. Aggressive civilisation, with a strong economic bonus, no HCs, no bombards. ---
**Author:** ![AbuzzJam4677680](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/abuzzjam4677680/32/55419_2.png) [@AbuzzJam4677680](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/AbuzzJam4677680)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/37 "2024-12-03T10:16:59Z")
> [@Efaisto](#): > > the staff slinger? > > More range than the Incan slinger, but less accurate. Possibly more base damage. Staff slinger was used to throw heavier projectiles, preferably incendiaries in naval battles and siege rather than anti-personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/skadidesu/32/172243_2.png) [@Skadidesu](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Skadidesu)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/38 "2024-12-03T10:40:11Z")
> [@AbuzzJam4677680](#): > > Historically, slinger was more anti-archer like in aoe1 actually. Slingers can carry shield and have a bit longer range. There is a type of sling, dart slinger to counter heavy armoured infantry. The problem is that AoE2 already established Slinger as anti Infantry and Skirmishers as anti Archers, even though it would be more reasonable the other way round. Chronicles itself already has Slinger as a campaigns exclusive unit that basically only does anti infantry damage (1 pierce damage). > [@KHANATTILA](#): > > But in reality they should be more like the Aztecs. Aggressive civilisation, with a strong economic bonus, no HCs, no bombards. Isn’t -35% cost for Infantry essentially an economic bonus? ---
**Author:** ![SamePorpoise303](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/sameporpoise303/32/29498_2.png) [@SamePorpoise303](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SamePorpoise303)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/39 "2024-12-03T12:45:47Z")
If the issue is Goths countering infantry, remove hand cannons and bombards and just give them arbalesters or thumb ring and siege engineers. Huskarls should go to Saxons if they ever add that civ but I’m afraid that for a properly Goth UU you just have to invent it putting together accounts + a gothic name. ---
**Author:** ![MUTYLATOR5553](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/mutylator5553/32/115284_2.png) [@MUTYLATOR5553](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MUTYLATOR5553)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2024, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719/40 "2024-12-03T15:41:56Z")
> [@Skadidesu](#): > > new Saxon civ that represents the Anglo Saxons and the Continental Saxons of the early Middle Ages. That’s what I mean by Saxon civ. Huskarl would be a reference to the Anglo-Saxons. But apart from that we must remember the continental Saxons - they may have late medieval/renaissance UU. [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/split-the-militia-line-into-two-units/266719.md?page=3)