Stagger the new Goth bonus?

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
1

If it’s true that giving Goths 35% cheaper infantry from the dark age is far too overpowered on open maps like Arabia, such that rather than making them a top tier Arabia civ it just makes them a clear #1 and completely overpowered …

…please don’t go to the other extreme and just remove their new bonus altogether. As, Goths SHOULD be top tier on Arabia, they’re a barbaric civ.

If -35% from the dark age is too strong, but NOT having it from the dark age makes them very weak on Arabia, then there must be a sweet spot. i.e. something like:

“Goth infantry cost -20% starting from the dark age and -35% from the feudal age onwards.”

If 20% is too strong then reduce it to 15%. But if they’re totally overpowered with -35% from the dark age and far too weak without any bonus like that altogether in the dark age … then I think there must be a sweet spot.

It’s an indirect eco bonus that very much suits their aggressive style and only makes them stronger on open maps where drushing is viable. That’s what a barbaric infantry civ like Goths SHOULD be like. It’s just the case that -35% from the dark age may be far too strong.

Thoughts on -20% from the Dark age and -35% from the feudal age onwards, and if 20% from the dark age is still too cheap reduce it to -15%?

I think we WANT Goth to be top tier on Arabia instead of bottom tier … we just don’t want them to be overpowered and clearly much better than other top tier civs.

I’ve added a poll on the matter. Agaim, this is regarding the change in the latest update that made the Goth -35% infantry cost bonus start from the dark age instead of the feudal age. Here are some possible options for you to vote on:

  • Change the Goths’ bonus to infantry cost -20% in the dark age and -35% in the feudal age onwards.
  • Change the Goths’ bonus to -15% in the dark age and -35% in the feudal age onwards because -20% in the dark age is still too strong.
  • Remove the new Goths’ bonus altogether. I don’t like it at all and the Goths need some sort of eco bonus instead.
  • Keep the new Goths’ bonus as it is… I like it! It’s not overpowered … it just makes Goths a top tier civ on maps like Arabia.

0 voters

I’ve decided that as their new bonus is so strong … I’m gonna play it safe and vote for -15% rather than -20% (from the dark age, they’ll still be -35% from feudal).

EDIT: One person voted in the poll but I corrected a typo in the poll and it removed their vote. Apologies, I didn’t realize it would do that. Feel free to vote again!

3 Likes
2

Although I agree it could work to have it staggered, I see goths as a very booring they only can play infantry (well, you can pkay something else, but good luck on that) I will preffer an eco bonus, to make them less unidimensional

3

Nope just remove it altogether

4

@OliveCereal4714 I wouldn’t be against that. As it’s nice when civs aren’t one dimensional. But, at the same time, I think that the Goths being a pure infantry civ is part of their identity so I lean towards that.

Whilst being pure infantry may make them a boring civ for some people … others might find that fun. Just like with, say, Britons and archers. Some people find Britons boring because they’re so focussed on pushes with ranged units and trebs … but others find them fun.

I think that if -35% from the dark age is too strong but not having the bonus is too weak then there must be a sweet spot where you get the Goths being Goth-like on Arabia and being very strong … but not being too strong.

By the way, if it was you that voted already besides myself, please feel to vote again as when I edited a typo in my post it reset the poll. Apologies, I didn’t realize it wouild do that (nobody else but me and one other person have voted yet as of this post being written).

5

I agree. “One-dimensional” is always the phrase people use with Goths, but if that one dimension is good, I don’t need the other ones. While I think an eco bonus would be fine, since it could be used for infantry, techs, or another unit line, explicitly buffing another unit line (like adding plate barding armor) would be silly. Goths have always been the most one-dimensional civ, and they were good at it back in AoC

I don’t know that the 35% discount from Dark is OP. It may be, but if so I’d prefer it staggered to 25/30/35/40% per age.

6

I’m not saying is bad, i’m saying is boring. I would give them some eco bonus. It would help them to play other things, while keeping their identity as a infantry civ

7

Option #5:

Dark: 20%
Feudal: 25%
Castle: 30%
Imp: 35%

2 Likes
8

Keep it the way it is. Just change the population bonus of the Goth to be percentage based and not a flat number.

9

Just give them extra starting stone to make everyone sad.

Too bad there is no go way to balance cheaper towers, like the Romans in AoE have.

10

I like GunTh0rs suggestion (-20%/25%/30%/35%) if you add it with a free tech (Free Arson/Scale Mail Armor) or a minor eco bonus (Infantry upgrades cheaper, Trees contain 25% more wood) that fits the infantry theme or helps/encourages playing longer games.

And like Szaladon I would also like to see the +10pop in imperial age changed to lets say +10% (Buffed in standard 200pop) to suit games with different pop limits.

1 Like
11

Maybe reduce the cost reduction to 25% and give them something else in the late game.

I like discounted towers. Makes them feel rank shackly. You have towers, but they are weak.

12

Problem with tower discount is that it can potentially make a very oppressive tower rush and if it only kicks in after Feudal Age it might not have an impact at all, as towers aren’t very powerful by then even with the guard tower research.

Maybe a more extreme discount like “Watch towers are 40% cheaper (and maybe built faster) in Castle Age” could work. It could give you the option of low-commitment map control and be more justifiable to drop a tower in remote gold/stone mines.

But I personally doesn’t find that it fits with their identity as they’re clearly meant to be an aggressive civ.

1 Like
13

Good point. I just like the Roman civ.

Sad it won’t work here

1 Like
14

But why? Goths were already bad, especially in Feudal and Castle, and losing part of their infantry discount for those Ages in exchange for a weak dark age bonus and a free low level tech feels like a major nerf.

2 Likes
15

haha devs seem to have thought along similar lines… but now people complaining they’re too weak

17

We’ll have to see it in action, but to me on paper it looks like Goths are back to where they were before, but now with a consolation prize of a veeeeery small buff with free Arson that’s nerfed at the same time by removing the Dark Age bonus damage to buildings. As it is now, the buff is a cost savings of 150 food, 50 gold, and 20 seconds research time in the Castle Age.

I expected the Goths would keep their old Dark Age bonus damage to buildings so they have a niche of having the best infantry building destroyers in the game with a +1/2/3/4 bonus damage to buildings in the Dark/Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age.

1 Like
18

They still have a better drush tho. I don’t think they are back at their former spot.

1 Like