I don’t like this idea, it would be a huge nerf. That’s like taking away 20 food and 80 wood (the cost of the mule cart). That’s way worse than potentially nerfing their starting resources (except for Nomad, if it was more than -25 wood).
This sounds interesting as it would delay the healing in each age. I fear it might be a little bit confusing for some casual players but I like the idea behind it.
Self regen should just be removed from scouts in feudal age, if the civ is allowed to age up very fast then shouldn’t gain a huge advantage on their scouts in feudal, just impagine if Magyars or Franks got something to make their dark age faster, or Khmer having a Scout bonus…
Honestly this civ is just too strong even after Monaspa nerf (WWC 2 tournament Georgians still a top ban) that even nerfing them three times will still left the civ strong, but at least balanced.
The supposed ‘defensive civilisation’ has the most aggressive start on open Arabia-type maps in the entire game.
It really seems balanced (like the Armenians) by the marketing team.
Watch the ACCM vs Vinchester semifinals, see again how silly Georgians still are.
Are you referring to this one?
With monaspa, they wont be defensive. Or you want some nerf of Monaspa?
If the balancing team wants to be a balance team and not continue to appear to be bossed around by the marketing team, this is what they should do in my opinion after giving it some thought:
this should make feudal simply OK, and not downright stupid and ridiculous. Does the marketing team know that the Berbers have to pay for a less strong tech that only applies to the Camels? Apparently not.
As for Monaspa, instead of squeezing into this little corner of continuing to reduce his HP:
The point that it is a unit with a lot of armour and little HP makes the bonus of the cavalry recovering HP automatically absolutely absurd, giving more HP and less armour is effectively a nerf.
Also because the Warrior Priest is actually Georgian, not Armenian.
Well Franks get faster berries and free horse collar. Net worth of Frank bonuses under 10 mins isn’t in any way inferior to Georgians. Obviously 5 hp/min for free is a lot. If its either very small like 1 hp/min and grows with techs or fully conditional on cavalry techs, it should be fine. Like 5 hp/min regen after bloodlines won’t be too powerful.
Monaspa nerf was unnecessary. Regeneration on scouts, CA plus the default work rate bonus needed a nerf/rework. Nerfed eco and military will make it harder to get to unique units and the civ will already be well balanced. If you nerf it thrice it will end up being a below average civ overall, sort of like current Gurjaras.
Or remain the regeneration. Make it affect only Monaspa and knight-line.
As a defensive civ, keep Bloodlines given Byzantine have Paladins while Georgions don’t. But lose Blast furnace and husbandry to lose some offensive power. Make it more reliant on Monaspa instead of knight like Lithuanians (Monaspa +1 base atk, elite Monaspa base atk +2)
Franks have strong eco yes but it doesn’t hit until feudal age anyway, Berry bonus is now a small boost on a slower res to gather, Georgians on the other side strat with one mule cart that not only saves 100 resources, but acts as a very flexible dropsite and helps on any map much earlier, not for a reason this civ is the only one that can send all vills to food in dark age and achieve fast uptimes.
Monaspa nerf helped halbs and camels to be better at countering them and making it more reliant on a bigger mass but it didn’t nerf Georgians that much at all while the civ still has fast dark age into strong feudal-castle-imperial age on any map (why were again top ban in WWC?).
Is the Georgian OPness because they have all BS upgrades for melee units? No
Combining it with first mule cart instantly made will be enough.
The mule cart bonus is very powerful on megarandom, Nomadic maps like those of WWC and hybrid maps with good deep fish. As far as Arabia and many such standard open land maps are concerned your dark age build will be more flexible but sending all vills to food for 15 or 16 vill uptime will affect scout + spear production or delay archery range addition in feudal. Having such flexibility is quite solid. I can see your point that an early dark age plus bonus on scouts is very powerful but unlike Magyars, Franks is a bad counter example imo.
Monaspa once produced aren’t more broken compared to uu like Conqs, Mangudai or Leitis. They just feel that way due to Georgian church eco and regen bonus on scout/CA. This is the reason why despite Monaspa nerfs, Georgians are still very strong. Imo first the overpowered eco and hp regeneration should have been nerfed. Obviously that’d make it much harder to get to Monaspa. The nerfs on Monaspa could have been done later if it were still necessary.
this depends on how you define OP. One of the things that make Georgians OP is they don’t have to rush in castle age and can choose to go imp. But lets say they lose blast furnace and bracer. CA won’t scale over time, cavaliers and halbs will be weaker. If game goes beyond the first few mins of imp, they’ll become weak despite all the eco. So tech tree handicap is also a nice way to balance out a civ but like yourself and many others I’d also prefer an early game nerf over late game.
This is true, but it forces the opponent onto the defensive. Which means you gain the time you need to set up your echo well, especially at high levels, to add an archery range. Which means that you will essentially have initiative for the rest of the game, because unlike the Mongols, who suffer in the Castle Age, you can extend your advantage simply with your fortified churches.
And why Monaspa, they produce so quickly, even after the nerf. I keep swearing at the balancing team aka marketing team.
A Letis takes 20 seconds to produce, 18 seconds the elite version.
A Mangudai take 26 seconds (in both versions).
At launch, a Monaspa took only 11 seconds (in both versions). It has now been increased to 14 seconds.
Which means you can produce in 280 seconds:
I suspect is because FE feels Monaspa needs to be massed so quickly to be added properly into existing Knights army (that adds to the Monaspa strenght too), but every time I play the civ and spec games fo any ELO level is mostly just set up OP eco into castles and then full Monaspa spam so even the description doesn’t apply in reality.
The civ is supposed to be designed as a defensive civ. Its eco bonuses should be non-existent. Its military bonuses should not be offensive. I’d remove some unfitting bonuses
REMOVE - Start with a free mule-cart
REPLACE - Mulecart are built and repaired 100% faster
REMOVE - Mounted units regenerate 5/10/15 hit points per minute in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age
REPLACE - Buildings regenerate 5/10/15 hit points per minute in the Feudal/Castle/Imperial Age
This makes their buildings the gerorgian identity of a defensive civ.
To make sure this regenerating non-sense is not given to any new civ, its better to have the effect applied to cumans Steppe Husbandry
New - Steppe Husbandry
Mounted units regenerate 10 hp/min
It synergises well with their faster cavalry. They can runaway and heal to fight.
Why a UT that clearly say Steppe is given to a civ that clealry hasn’t nothing to do with Steppes? Without Mentioning self repairing buildings taking even less damage from hills but also 25% cheaper to repair would be far more overpowered, and a good way to make Georgian Castles completely broken.
As for Monaspa I thought, what if we reduce their base attack from 12 (14) to 10 (12) but we add the 2 attack nerf to the mass requeriment (so the full Monaspa strenght will need 42 units).
What I’m saying is its optimal to hit feudal at best with 1 less vill than usual with Georgians otherwise you won’t be able to do a regular feudal with scouts, spears, eco upgrades. One or the other won’t be affordable defeating the purpose of the fast timing. Just to reiterate, this is regarding the argument that Georgians can get crazy fast uptimes because of mule cart bonus and also have Scout bonus. One pop sooner than usual is something plenty of civs can do. So if they get free mule cart and generic scouts, that’s just like Japanese bonus in dark age and worse than 2 dozen civs. Scouts regenerating 5 hp/min is very powerful. But if we have something like 1 hp/min by default or if regen happens with each stable tech or cavalry tech, it can be quite balanced.
And while its off topic, I wouldn’t say Mongol don’t fall apart in castle age. They have lancers, crazy good CA and strong light cav and usually get a timing advantage at all levels since their dark age bonus is much higher compared to almost all civs. Unless you’re planning on just booming, Mongol is a powerhouse as well. Fortified churches are obviously a bit overtuned but with appropriate changes it can be balanced. Like smaller boost radius or boost % or 275 wood cost etc.
20 Elite Monaspa will approximately have the same effectiveness as 16 Leitis and might actually cost a bit more. The reason why you don’t feel Leitis aren’t as much of a problem is because Lithuanian don’t get the work rate boost bonus like Georgians do. If suppose you change their bonus to be 200 food per tc suddenly Leitis will seem unstoppable because production will begin at a much earlier stage of the game. Imo this is what gives the illusion of Monaspa being OP.
Mangudai are ranged and you’re not going to lose them fast. Monaspa being a fragile melee unit need to get produced faster to respawn according to the rate at which they’d die. Like shotels vs other infantry uu. Maybe tt of non elite Monaspa could be increased to 15 but it definitely should be lower compared to other cav uu since its a low hp unit.