I love it - dunno how that idea never came to me.
Assuming it’s a 50% discount and the Archery Range tree is unaffected (so no Heavy Cavalry Archer & Parthian Tactics), the Italians would save, rounded down:
That’s pretty significant.
Do Italians really need all discount bonuses 
All but two of their bonuses (team bonus & Pavise) have to do with making stuff cheaper, so…
YES.
No but I think it’s the only bonuses that is still free while cohering well with how Italians usually play out on open maps (archer focus and mild powerspikes for getting faster to the ages and archer related techs cheaper) while not being op (as people suggested free fletching or free xbow unit upgrades in the past).
But I would still like the civ to get something uniquely strong not only generic stuff cheaper. But yes expanding the -33% bonus to ARs as well is a solid idea. But I feel the civ could use some cool Imp UT other than cheaper trade carts only useful for tgs, which next to their only tg tb, might narrow the civ a bit too much in.
Actually, there aren’t a lot options of unique archer bonus left to Italians.
Blacksmith: Koreans get free armor upgrade. Bulgarians get -50% food cost. Spansih get goldless tech. Free atk upgrades drew criticism heavily.
HP: viet bonus
ATK: No civ can get it for arbalest. But UU can get +1 atk. Chu ko nu, rattans and longbow.
RoF: Ethiopians
Range: Britons
Movement Speed: Plumed
Training speed: Britons
Cost: Koreans, Portuguese and Mayans
The remaining would be accuracy, frame delay and projectile speed. Imo, only projectile speed may be a bit useful. But it is too hard to adjust. Either too weak or OP.
Well thwir late game already is uniquely strong by virtue of having a lot of units available including 2 UU which are indeed very unique. Also the fact that you got both hussar and arb FU iskinda unique even if it’s generally units. I mean which civs have that? Magyars (but they basically never use arb), saracens and I think that’s it (might be forgetting one or two). Imo you can create unique civs by combining different generic options.
To me that appears to be more interesting than just giving one civ super strong bonuses for one unit and/or strong eco. Most civs are super specialized in two units while Italians is one of the few civs that actually has reason to make use of their broad tech tree. I mean other civs have good tech trees as well but ingame it oftentimes doesn’t make sense to produce these units.
I think Genbow are underwhelming, and condos are more of a early imp unit or a gp counter. I dont think that balances the lack of an Imp UT or tb that well. I can for instance imagine giving them the cheaper AR techs bonus and on the flip side exchange pavise and silk road but make pavise +2/+2 and also affect HC idk
The design of their UU is extraordinary. But it turns out that the UU aren’t really fulfill the supposed role well.
Condos have +10 bonus vs gunpowder. But gunpowder can deal high dmg against Condos. In mass scale, Condos can’t really counter gunpowder. Unless there is a mechanism like introducing negative bonus dmg for gunpowder vs Condos, they can’t fulfill the role.
Condos is instead more like an early Imp unit but fall off fast. It can be get +3 vs eagles at least. The base stat may also get a bit of buff to match with other Imp unit, like +2 atk. But to prevent other allies from abusing Condos, the base cost may be increased to 60f/40g. Italians may include 20% discount to both gunpowder and Condos (Italian cost: 48f/32g)
Idk if you are aware, but Condos already take less damage from HC ?
Genoese are actually insane. I play the civ a lot on arena and when you get to genoese hussar bbc most civs cant do anything against that. On arabia it’s just a bit more difficult to get to but you can open arb in imp and at some point transition to genoese. The only drawback, again, here is that it’s awkward to protect from raids with units that usually are grouped up and designed to attack.
And condos are super situational but they can really save you sometimes. They even are good vs arb (fast speed, good hp and 5 pierce armor) if your opponent doesn’t have 40 in one spot. I don’t know how many games I won by booming and being defensive and then reacting with condos upon reaching imp. Unless your opponent makes gunpowder or eagles you probably make them longterm but they can buy you the time to get to your comp. Sure you don’t see them very often but that’s fine for a 2nd UU imo.
They are situational, yes, outside the bonus damage they have nothing going for them, which is quite unique for a UU
Yes, they negate the bonus dmg from HC. But they still take 12 dmg from HC and more dmg from other gunpowder units. Thats why they can’t counter gunpowder. After all, Condos is just melee unit. Unlike Huskarl and eagles which tank arrows, Condos can’t resist gunpowder. Huskarl actually do better than Condos when fighting gunpowder.
Ok, thanks i gotcha.
Not needing any upgrades isn’t unique? They are like fast moving champions that are way easier to produce in early imp. They are way better against arbs for instance compared to most other infantry units. This doesn’t even consider their bonuses vs gunpowder.
GC is one of the best unit to counter cavalry in team games. (on par with Kamayuk and Mameluke) But in 1v1, they take too long to train. Like other archers, GC needs mass to be effective. Requiring a castle for a counter unit is too slow to mass and not a good idea in 1v1. Italians is deprived of halbs and forced to rely on GC. Even if you manage to mass GC, mangonels await and deplete them. It is quite frustrating to take a long time to replenish the number. GC can’t substitute halbs in 1v1 as they are hard to mass.
They have extra armor vs gunpowder units
They are fine, great on arena and 4 Lakes and other Maps, less great on Arabia, Still OP on Water Maps.
If you don’t see them that often , is because people is bussy abusing the OP Mayans/Britons because both make other archer civs look terribly unbalanced unmatching OP levels as they can’t compete with both.
Like I said, nerf Britons/Mayans and then people Will finally pick Italians/Koreans/Portugueses/Vietnamese more so all eventually reach optimal pickrates and winrates.
And Genoese xbow don’t need more Range, is important to offset the advantage vs cavalry with less Range than arbalest, but the only stat I would increase is the elite attack, from 6 to 8, so they are also better than arbalest vs other non cavalry units and better vs cavalry.
Once Mayans and Britons are nerfed they would probably still be better than Italians + Ethiopians and Saracens are 100% better as well, Chinese probs are, and Huns/Tatars probs are too.
Eh it could happen but it would have to be lockedbehind a tech