STEAM Release Notes - PUP March 2022

Tech Issues & Support


Why do the Devs hate China so much? Small buffs but bigger nerfs?? Please rethink about these nerfs.
Nerf to IO and granaries wont help to bring the Civ out of trashcan tier. They need help.
Deli got stronger and was already strong A tier.
Mongols nerfed to C tier(saw this coming)
Abbasids got buffed. Good for them.
Camel buffs. Mabe OP now who knows

I can’t get over the Chinese changes. I was excited about bringing the dynasty buildings forward by one age - but then they went and slapped utterly MASSIVE nerfs on top of that, the types of which we were joking about after patch 11009. We were being sarcastic, dear Relic. It wasn’t supposed to be an instruction manual.


I really hope the in-house mods aren’t an indication of what can be achieved with mods. I have absolutely zero interest in any of those. What I want to see from mods is things like being able to make the graphics better, decent camera control, make the hotkeys work better, improve the actions panel etc.

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Wow, the HRE will get from being one of most booming civs to becoming the new goths.

The change to the Burgrave Palace was needed, like a nerf to the palace of swabia, but the Meiwerk palace is now super good, I mean cheaper and faster techs with a super barracks that trains and research faster. The next time I’m just gonna spam man at arms and landskenect, get the ranged armor and heavy maces in no time and nobody can stop me.

Also, the regnitz cathedral is now nerfed, but even more easy to use, since 2 relics aren’t that hard to get. I would have decreased the gold bonus for each relic, and maybe increase the number of relics that could be housed inside, to make it more rewarding getting them. Although, it’s also true that people have learned pretty well to contest them.

I mean, I don’t agree with all changes, and some aspect of the civ still needs attention in my opinion, but I’m also impatient on trying the new GOTHS-HRE.

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Super disappointed to see ZERO Delhi fixes. Maybe they were just left off the notes? If the notes are accurate:

  • We still have this stupid sacred site dichotomy with no other way to play. Get them and win. Miss them and lose. Delhi falls off precipitously in team games, due primarily to sacred site reliance. Really need to see this mess tied to one of the Feudal landmarks (probably Tower of Victory), Sanctity moved to Castle age where it just increases sacred site gold (maybe 200 gold/min is appropriate then), and some other Feudal buff applied ot the other Feudal landmark (presumably Dome of Faith) so there’s an alternative to living or dying by sacred sites.
  • No fixes to Tower of Victory (which also needs to be global or also in mosque influence so the attack speed is easier to apply later in game).
  • No fix for Hisar Academy+Honed Blades bug.
  • Armored beasts presumably still not applying to tower elephants.
  • Archer upgrades presumably still don’t benefit the elephant archers.
  • No ability to choose between crossbow and archer elephants after researching the siege tech (archer elephants would perform better vs archers and spearmen).
  • Imperial age tech research still too long. Let’s be honest here, Delhi are not strong because of their imp. Something could be done here in combination with an adjustment to Feudal landmarks/sacred sites (as suggested above) that would balance them out across the spectrum of the game and improve their team game situation as well.

Baghlah buff is definitely needed (and a Delhi buff, though niche). Naval changes look good across the board.

As for the other changes:

  • I question extra dark age wood for English when their Feudal aggression is already incredibly strong. They needed a better transition for Castle Age, not an even stronger rush (which apparently includes beefier MAA now, too). I’m fine with the apparent Vanguard MAA + King’s Palace idea, but I don’t think extra wood was needed for that. And extra wood certainly wasn’t needed for Council Hall into longbows unless the buffs to other civs meant English was just left behind.
  • Chinese changes seem mostly good.
  • French still French. I think their late game needs some love. +1 range to Culverin would probably be a good thing across the board, and would help French imperial as well.
  • If N4C is any indication, Mongols are probably quite subpar now.
  • HRE landmark changes look good.
  • Are HRE Prelates with marching drills now going to carry relics faster than Warrior Monks?
  • Boiling oil nerf is good.
  • Abbasid look amazing.
  • Lodya ship changes seem positive.

Map changes look good for 1v1. Would love to see something done about the size of maps on team games and how crazy long it takes to move around infantry forces. I’m not sure if that’s just smaller maps, or some other dynamic that creates more reaction time. As it is, getting double or triple teamed by mobile opponents is just extremely hard to deal with and makes infantry armies (especially in the early game) almost non-viable. It feels like you’re either forced to all-in, or you’re forced to play French/Mongols/Abba/Rus so you can have a mobile Feudal army to react to all-ins. I think being able to choose your spawn point (which players are on the flanks vs. the pocket) might improve this as you could put more vulnerable players/civs in the middle where it’s easier to defend them, or put a super strong player in the middle so they can help in either direction.

One other glaring issue: you still can’t connect to allied walls, or connect palisade and stone walls!

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There are Delhi fixes that have not been put into the patch notes. The victory tower is one.

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Please investigate the bugs that we have reported since October, if they are still there, and report to the forum, the success of the spring patch depends on that

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a different hotkey can be assigned if pressed 2 times!! , I don’t remember that in the previous beta

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They hate China why???


The extra wood for the english does worry me a bit since their early game is already really strong. MAA change is understandable since they still have to upgrade them once they reach feudal.

Naval changes are good, but it doesnt adress some of the balance issues. French will dominate naval maps now that the Rus has been nerfed. I highly suggest replacing the age 2 hulk with soemthing else otherwise people will just continue to alt f4 water maps.

I think that the hulk should have a good speed penalty in the age 2, so to that galleys can at least always decide when to engage.

Hulks should be good for defending your fishing, or to pressure your opponent, but it needs to be an all in to do so.

Idk if that is a good solution. It will just create a situation where the ships will feel too clunky and slow.
The problem is that the hulk doesnt really have a place in age2.
They will either be too strong or too weak. Its incredibly hard to find a middle point for a warship that costs 540 ressources early on.

Additional Mouse Buttons finally work.


the new preview patch is going into the right direction! i like the new content alot and hope the devs will let the mod community be creative with the editor.


If they are too strong, but can’t force the fight, then it’s more balanced. Consider that if you simply lack galley numbers to kill enemy hulks, you can always run back and fight under your dock.

Increasing the training time in the second age would also help, since it would it would make it more difficult to mass.

At least this update shows that they take Aoe4 seriously and won’t let it fade away. I am impressed how many bugs they have fixed as seen in the list. kudos to devs.


For anyone thinking of installing this, it threw away all my progress in the game, it was as if I’d never played the game before when I ran it up. I don’t know if that’s intentional and it will revert back when it becomes an official release or not. Also it seems buggy, I went through setting the hotkeys to more like what I have in AoE 2 DE, as I can get them closer now, and when I went to try them in a game, the game completely locked up.

It’s common for playing the pup, it’s like a beta.

If you disable it and return to the standard game you’ll sse that you still got all your progress.

It work similarly with aoe2 and aoe3 de, just play the pup as long as you want to test the new things, then leave the feedback here and get back to the standard game when you are done.

Thanks, I must have just never noticed it in AoE 2 DE. It’s really obvious in 4, as it puts you into the intro tutorial again, and your level and masteries are reset.

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These nerfs to Chinese are not appropritate. Chinese is the worst civ in terms of winrate and pickrate. Not counting N4C obviously because you can only play a civ once if you win with them. Without tournament rules players are simply playing the best civs - no one would be playing Chinese and we see this reflected in pickrates.

But then you have changes like +50 wood for English and faster MAA production. Why? And how does English get away with zero nerfs while Chinese gets nerfed again and again despite its poor performance?

Even more nerfs to wall build time for Chinese. Why? This is civ is only scary if you leave it alone and turtle of 10 minutes so all their investment into Dynasties yields them something. Because without Dynasties and with the nerfed Imperial Official, Chinese civ “bonus” is not a real bonus. They are flat out weaker than Delhi, Abbasids, Rus, English, HRE, Mongols, French.

Not only do you nerf the civs core feature even more, you also nerf there turtle potential despite this being the only viable way to play them. Have you tried “aggressive Age 2 Chinese”? It doesn’t work. You’ll just get outproduced by Mongols because of their free units. Or by Abbasids and Delhi due to food gather rates and saving thousands of ressources on upgrades.