Steppe Lancer's have no relevant niche

I think he meant it for halbs, Lancers beat standard infantry anyway

This is the worst idea ever. Sorry.
What have i just read… You want to nerf infantry even more really? Make those steppe lancers invencible basicly?

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Easily solved by Removing Knights altogether from Cumans, Tatars and Mongols, BUFFING the SL in exchange.
All it takes is agreement.

I do think Mongols and Tatars specifically should lose knights in exchange for a buff to SL.
This is because it solves two problems:

  1. SL are too similar to knights. Therefore, only one can see the light of day.
  2. SL civs never get to use them in serious play. Which is a consequence of the fact that SL can either be better or worse than Knights (1 above).

Cumans can keep Paladin with no bonus SL
OR Cumans can get a bonus upgrade on their SL(Imperial SL etc) to compensate for Paladin. But Tatars and Mongols with Knights is quite weird design-wise as well as balance-wise (for SL).

I know it would be more work, but this would also be a very easy way of improving unit variety in Castle Age and make the 3 civs more unique.

NOTE: I hope you as a reader understand that just ’ being more work’ is not reason enough to counter-argue such changes, if for any.
I hope you are not part of NCBW (No Changes Because Winrate) or NCBMW (No Changes Because More Work) blocs.

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No. You can make calculations yourself. Maybe some mod can make this changes, I dont have skill for this. The goal is to make them as effective as Knights vs Pikes, and later as Palas vs Halbs, with all their weaknesses. This will make them more cost-effective alternative vs Pikes, and weaker vs everything else.

How do you propose to do this?

It doesn’t have to be infantry, there’s a spearman armor class for that

after thinking about this for over a day and a half or so, i can tell you its a pain to do without breaking it in some way.
in my opinion the best option to make the SL usable is to make it a pure raider unit, designed for picking off siege, villagers, and monks.
it can be the raider option you use when you actually have gold, as opposed to the scout line, which you would use when gold is an issue. to facilitate this, the SL would as it does now, have a higher attack then the Scout line, and thus be be the more appealing option when gold is available. i would also make ESL upgrade much cheaper then it currently is.
that isn’t in line with what parthnan wants though, as he wants it to replace the knight.

No, I do want it to be a raider unit exactly as you say that is also usable as a Knight(due to being easier to mass and having better stats than LC), thus effectively replacing the Knight fully in all practical purposes.

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so answer the question. how would you go about making the steppe lancer a knight replacement?
you want the change, tell us how you would do it, how it would be balanced, etc.

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Melee tankiness is missing and this would be too much of a loss for me. I want to keep on using knights, who are all-around powerful unit, not raiders for most of gameplay.

But every other form of tankiness will be available with Buffed SL, much like the Indian Camel line

Think of it as Indian Camels without the Anti-cav bonus but with 1 range and more PA

Indian camel line is good example of how I don’t want to play this game, because castle age camels can’t replace knights even for indians (they have only pathetic +1 PA over generic camels).

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you keep saying that but don’t propose the buffs, whats the point. Removes any credibility of your argument to making them a knight replacement

I repeat Think of Buffed SL as Indian Camels without the Anti-cav bonus but with 1 range and more PA

That is my proposition

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Do a poll about it, so we can vote about this. Otherwise this discussion gets on forever with repeated arguments.

Look, those are my personal proposition, but I am not as knowleddgeable as PROs so I don’t decide the exact numbers

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more pierce armor won’t help because lancers are too weak in combat (losing to knights in equal resources) after the December nerf. Atleast camels have the HP and anti-cavalry bonus to somewhat negate the lack of knight

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And yet look how they wrecked Knights pre-December, with 0 melee

I want them to be in between pre-December SL and current SL, so that they replace the Knight line, effectively, and not be OP

which will either make it OP or make the SL civs weaker than they’re now. So yes, this idea is bad

they stacked, cost less, had more attack, and attacked faster. And frankly they required a mass of numbers for that to happen. Like a massive number.

Not if you make them exactly between pre-December and post-December.
Then they get balanced and they effectively become a more aggressive and stacky version of the Knight, thus replacing it