Hi, I just want to emphasize that Selective breeding’s cost has been reduced by 50%.
That means that a 300 res tech (150w 150g) is now 150.
The thing is, Stockyards has the same effect and is worth an Age I Shipment.
So, as of now, Stockyards is a 150 ressources-worth of cards.
I wanted to bring this topic to the devs’ attention as a followup to their recent livestock tech buff.
Possible buff towards a 300 res-worth of cards could be, for example :
- add a sheep with it.
- add a 50% livestock gather rate with it, limiting fulling mills to 250%
What do you think about it ?
2 Likes
A stockyard is where animals are kept before shipping or slaughter. So a good bonus could be:
- Recieve 1 sheep with all your future shipments
It would help make livestock management a little less tedious by giving you a steady supply of them.
4 Likes
you can’t put economic cards and research on the same level.
You can always get selective breeding you have to ship stockyards and it stacks.
For better understanding of these cards work similar to techs:
Selective breeding: Herded Animals: Gather Workrate for Livestock Pen +25%
Stockyards (I): Herded Animals: Gather Workrate for Livestock Pen +30% & Herded Animals: Gather Workrate for Livestock Pen LIMIT +30%
As Quirriff said, they worth much expensive than the teches because they can stack.
I see what you mean. However, we can see that Food Silos (I) is the equivalent of the Seed Drill technology, that costs 150g 150w. So we see the same pattern here.
Yeah but the same logic applies, you want to stack the cards so they are worth much more then just the comparative benefit they bring
If the same logic applies, then Seed Drill should be reduced to 75w 75g. I get the stacking part, and I see why these cards are interesting, but I think in a supremacy environment only the stacking is too slow. Remember this card competes with 2 villagers (I), or 4-5 Villagers (II) a minute later for most civs. The livestock gather rate buff I propose aims at sup and TR, allowing some civs to livestock boom in TR even if they are not brits or haud (no fulling mills), and to get direct value off of a well-made deck on livestock maps in Supremacy.
The two system are separate and therefore their costs of one should not be used for changing the other.
The upgrades will always be available where as cards are a choice that can be added onto the deck and provide advantage above and beyond the normal system so just applying a superficial cost comparison is meaningless. there are considerations for deck space and just build order as well
Like take the combat buffs for example, vet tech 20%) cost 200 200 for most civs while an age 3 combat card only boost by 15% so by this logic either vet tech should cost 1000+ resources or the combat card should boost by like 30-40%
the extra nature and permanent nature of the buffs make a cost comparison kinda meaningless
you also dont necessarily need all the options to be competitive with each other at the same age, the value can change depending on the age and what is left in the deck
and if you want to say, allow age 1 mill play, please dont
1 Like
Your point makes sense, even if the strawman at the end was not needed.
However, combat cards often turn tempo in your favor by making your equivalent mass instantly better.
My point is, this family of “x combat” is competitive at some point in the game. stockyards feels weak in supremacy at pretty much any point in the game, and there could be ways to make it a slow play, where tempo can be traded away for later value, that could enable better livestock plays for different civilizations, rather than adding a card on top of a cheap tech.
As for the relative competitiveness cards, you are right, but striving to have an array of meaningful choices makes the game more fun. Civs that have no access to a 3v (I) card tend to have more open opening choices.
Bumping to add another equivalent, and more analysis : Economic theory gives much more value than 300 res, but for all intents and purposes, it is the equivalent of hunting dogs + gangsaw + placer mines in age 1. All of these techs together are worth 350 res (175 of it being food, so it is on par with 300).
Establishing an Ironmonger ? 20% mining rate, it is 400 res for a tech (amalgamation, with half of it food)
Exotic hardwoods ? 400 res (equivalent to log fume, with 38% of it food)
Note that I excluded cards that gives yield, as we have no equivalent for it in the market.
Now, if we consider pairing this up with 7 sheep + 1 Livestock ### ## a followup, the LP raw output goes from 3.5 f/s extra to 4.55 f/s, an extra 1.05f/s, equating to a half a villager gathering on livestock. Even if we add the 7 semi-fattened cows and the 2 from a possible age-up, this would equate to 7 sheeps + 9 cows buffed from this, and supposing we get the 7 after eating everything, we would generate an extra 1/2 villager for 294s (for the sheeps) and then 1.5 villagers for 166s, meaning 397 extra villager.seconds over the course of 460s, which means we have 0.86 unupgraded villagers for about 8 minutes with this card.
Compare this with Capitalism (+2.5 unupgraded villagers (UV) on coin for the rest of the game), distributivism (+2.5 UV on wood), or colbertism (+1.5), eco theory (+1 UV / 10 villagers), or even furrier without the yield (+1.5 UV / 10 vills on hunt) and you will realize there is no real incentive to send this card.
However, I do not know how changing this card would break treaty balance. This is why my proposed changes were not aiming at accelerating the card, but rather giving it an effect that would not affect treaty too much.
