That’s not something I was ever arguing.
Because rushing is a valid strategy, but so is fast turtling. The design is sound. Something about the current implementation is (still) off (imo). I’ve seen plenty of theories, plenty of suggestions.
There will always be dominant strats that can carry weaker players. This doesn’t mean the strategies will always need nerfing. I think Stone Walls are an issue, but I don’t think this is a good argument for that issue.
Moderate your language.
I have barely seen stone walls being used in feudal in ranked. They are just not worth it to build early since you just give up the whole map, and you are using a ton on resources that could be spent in better things.
In castle and inperial they are in a good spot and they simply help to prevent raids in your eco.
As for tournaments, walls are banned because in feudal to make the game more engaging and fun to watch for viewers, not for balance.
Playing on 3 accs. In lower elos i can tell you for sure that almost every single player is playing feudal turtling, wich isnt a thing in higher elos.
Played 3 games all 3 were + 2h hours because of this sht of a mechanism. Just an example. Played malians. Feudal at 3:40 12 warrior scouts + melee armor and attack from BS at 6 minutes or so. They barely had feudal and they had already walls couldnt enter at 6 minutes?
Yeah youre right that is not that played in higher elos, but in lower elos literally everyone is turtling.
How is it fair that they gutted tower rush completely, but this even worse mechanism is being untouch for the past 2 years?
It is for balance. There should be no 2h our games in any of the brackes be it tournament or simple comp.
The only gamemode where i can argue that a 2h + game is somewhat acceptable is a 8player ffa
Except that you can turtle faster pass into feudal 1 minute later and just laugh because they cant break in thanks to how overpowered the walls are. Their cost is laughable compared to how lhard is to destroy them.
They gutted tower rush, they should gut this trash also.
Yeah there are strats that enables bad players i agree with that, but there should be some restrictions all in all against stalling and turtling only.
It shouls not be acceptable that you sit behind your walls with all your army and do basically nothing just wait for the enemy to attack. Necause you wete lucky enough to get all the sacred sites way closer to you than to your enemy.
Also it never was a debate, its a fact that it should not be playable from feudal, if you cant build workshop from age 2 then stone walls shouldnt be constructable from this age either.
You said it right, lower elos. So maybe you need to learn to play against it instead of asking for nerfs. If someone is investing that heavy in deffending, all you need to do is invest heavy in your economy, especially with malians since you have the pit mines plus the option to trade uncontested.
You can pretty much just choke the other civ out of resources and the game definitely shouldnt last 2 hours. Less than 20min you can be in castle age on his base witb 3x his army+siege while he has no army due to investing so many resources in making walls and turtling.
Bare in mind we are talking about tournament games where a lot of money is at stake so players are more likely to continue playing and trying even if the game was already over and if it was in ranked they would have resigned long before that.
I would argue a 2 hour game between 2 civs in pro level show these 2 civs are very even in terms of strength as well.
Lol what? Walls are banned in tournaments? This must be a joke jaja
Stone walls are banned in feudal in tournaments
its not hard to play against it, you just turtle like them how is that hard?
Its way more problermatic that it can gut an early rush taking away diervsity and options.
They nerfed the sht out of castle rush which was an easily coutnerable strat, yet they let this sht untouched for another year?
Today i played on the plat acc. and they did stonewall 3 times out of 4 in mid feudal. SO yeah its time to nerf it, because its broken.
this is not true at all. since depending on map you dont need too much resource to wall yourself. the cost is laughable and the time to build is is just as low as the cost. Idk what game are you playing thinking that it will gut himself by doing it.
wake up and check the actual game your talking about,.
They buffed the hell outta rams, nerfed stone deposits, nerfed build time, nerfed all related techs to stone wall durability. Nah, they weak enough.
The issue is snake walling as a strat - needs to be somekind of limit to the things, but making it so any ladder hero mono comping cav and attack move can safely ignore making actual siege weapons and a plan is pretty bad design.
Maybe you can show us these games then so we can see how broken they are
I mean you dont have to belive me, idc at all. Ask any proplayer and literally none of them gonna argue that it should be either castle or imperial age tech.
You were talking about gutting yourself resourcewise if youre playing stonewall in feudal, wich is stupid from the beginning since it was never even the case.
Go on amd ask any pro player about their opinion. Not gonna move anywhere waiting
From what I see, AOE4 is like upgrade of AOE2 with more mechanic.
In AOE2 Stone wall is also there in Feudal age but not much problem due to:
Due to many above, AOE2 hardly build stone wall unless it’s closed map that could close path fast (fast stone likely go to tower rush than stone wall in feudal).
Many nerfs that occur to stone wall is like trying to push it down to AOE2 level with AOE4 Mechanic, but for feudal age, there could be some room to discuss.
I thought there was a very obvious explanation for the no walls rule, it’s only no walls in feudal and it’s because of a really cheesy strat you can do with stone walls in feudal. I think aussie_drongo made a video explaining why they had to be banned.