Suggestion: A change to the Murder Holes tech

Well, I think is pretty foolish that you need to invest an extra 200 food 100 stone just to remove the minimum range from Towers and Castles. The proof that the tech is expensive is that most high level players don’t even bother to research it most of the times.

So here is three suggestion options on how to change the Tech:

1) Murder Holes is free once you reach Castle Age. (Like the Teeeeutons :grin:. Maybe tower rush civs would become unbalanced?).
2) Murder Holes is free once you build an University. (Like they changed the old Cartography tech that now is free after you build a Market).
3) Just reduce the cost of Murder Holes. (Not the best option imho.)

Another suggestion related to the topic… Instead of “Murder Holes” slot in the University, now at Imperial Age there is a new tech avaliable to research: “Boiling Oil” (Like the old Persian tech), that increases Castles damage by X against Rams.

Option 3 is the best option if you ask me.


I think that Murder Holes is in a good spot.
It’s extremely cheap compared to any other University Techs.
And it’s quite unique.

It actually leaves you at a disadvantage against rams.


Why are people in this forum trying to change things which worked perfectly fine for 20 years :man_shrugging:


I don’t care to change it, but if it had to change it, option 3 is the least intrusive.


Im speaking in general,can see lot of people want to remove stuff to make the game play more automated or changed just for the sake of it.This is not a mmo game where everything gets done automatically.


In campaigns I like to research murder holes, so my castle(s) can kill enemy units, which are attacking it from adjacent tiles. It is surprising to hear, that some people don’t find this tech useful or find it too expensive.

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Real players don’t throw units under castle in most scenarios. It definitely helps when the enemy is raiding around a defensive castle though

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Letting AI sacrifice entire armies to castles is one of the main tricks in single player. So murder holes is definitely very useful tech overall, even if not so useful in multiplayer


Murder holes is fine, it is situational but definitely not a bad technology, it has its uses and can be very powerful in some situations.


Perhaps 100 stone does limit its viability but among the priority of techs that needs cost revision, it ranks far at the bottom

My ox wagon works just fine hick Why them city folk always tryin to invent cars and things which make their lives better hick

hes got a point though, change too much and its no longer aoe2.

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Ever herd the saying dont fix what is not broken?

BTW this is still that 20 year old ox cart with a new paint job but broken.Old ox car still runs smoothly :stuck_out_tongue:

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Just replace the stone cost by 200 wood in my opinion.

I like the boiling oil idea as a new general tech. Needs a new icon and put in university as the imperial follow up to murder holesv (like masonry and architecture) . Remove the tech from a handful of civs like goths huns aztec and done.

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It affects stone buildings, so should cost stone.

It’s not ridiculous, it’s part of the game and actually a pretty crucial one.

One of the ways to take down castles in the castle age is to ram rush and petard rush. Murder holes makes it significantly more difficult to do.

You don’t need this tech most of the time when you have castles, but you certainly need it when expecting petards and rams and high level players research it when that is the case. Also, as stated, murder holes affects towers as well which means you’d no longer be able to melee rush a tower in castle age.


Could this be part of the issue why so many people don’t research the tech…?

Imo murder holes could lose 50 stone and

Sorry this sounds erroneous… Minimum range is 1. Ram push is to distract the auto fire on the castle while the petard rush in. If you have murder holes it means more likely to waste arrow shots on rams… If petard are within 1 tile of the castle they’re detonating… So i can’t see any way this is helping for that…How many players even use petards? Their detonations are so bugged on hills atm as well. Even if murder holes somehow counters them… Which i dont see how it does.

We all agree the tech isn’t useless ffs. We’re saying its too expensive for its situational returns. It’s an entire town centre worth of stone.