# \[Suggestion Balance\] Cumans Double TC BOOM is too strong, need nerf **URL:** \ **Category:** II - Discussion\ **Created:** [October 18, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420 "2020-10-18T15:52:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/roomoftheevil/32/29255_2.png) [@RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/RoomOfTheEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/1 "2020-10-18T15:52:17Z")
The eco that you can gain along with their hp bonus on the palaside. so you can play safe till castle age even when putting 20% of your eco on walling (example daut vs villese), is too much. Suggetions More time for TC build or 2nd TC produces vill slower until castle age or Others… ---
**Author:** ![ArshiaAghaei](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/arshiaaghaei/32/52335_2.png) [@ArshiaAghaei](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/ArshiaAghaei)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:06pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/2 "2020-10-18T16:06:35Z")
> [@RoomOfTheEvil](#): > > More time for TC build This already has been applied And I think they are fairly balanced in this regard ---
**Author:** ![CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/cactussteak2171/32/29684_2.png) [@CactusSteak2171](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CactusSteak2171)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:15pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/3 "2020-10-18T16:15:10Z")
A building that takes more time than a castle to build is sure going up too quickly… ---
**Author:** ![FurtherLime7936](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/furtherlime7936/32/113417_2.png) [@FurtherLime7936](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/FurtherLime7936)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/4 "2020-10-18T16:16:08Z")
What’s going to be your next nerf post? Vikings free WH and HC? Nerf Royal Heirs? Nerf more? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudio3342](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/gaudio3342/32/56349_2.png) [@Gaudio3342](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Gaudio3342)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/5 "2020-10-18T20:21:54Z")
Nerf houses. They provide too much pop space for their size. ---
**Author:** ![IICumanicus](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/iicumanicus/32/42804_2.png) [@IICumanicus](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/IICumanicus)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/6 "2020-10-18T21:39:05Z")
It’s not OP you need to be in Feudal Age when your opponent makes Castles and Mangonels. Opponent makes knight and Crossbowman, you can make scout and archers. If you are against Cumans best strategy fast castle if you know Cuman player will go boom. Also remember, this is “bonus”. If they change it, it becomes useless thing instead of a bonus. ---
**Author:** ![CombatWombatt23](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/combatwombatt23/32/35169_2.png) [@CombatWombatt23](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CombatWombatt23)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/7 "2020-10-18T21:47:20Z")
I think it’s bad that all vills can build all buildings. They should have to specialize in either eco or military buildings, otherwise villagers are ToO oP aND neEeD NErf ---
**Author:** ![RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/roomoftheevil/32/29255_2.png) [@RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/RoomOfTheEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/8 "2020-10-18T21:56:40Z")
Bonus of a +8 vill in castle age, when only 2-3 min of castle age difference isn’t too much? ---
**Author:** ![MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matcauthon3/32/29474_2.png) [@MatCauthon3](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatCauthon3)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/9 "2020-10-18T22:28:11Z")
If the bonus is so good that it needs a nerf, how come cumans aren’t a top tier civilization? ---
**Author:** ![Biz5985](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@Biz5985](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Biz5985)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 10:34pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/10 "2020-10-18T22:34:24Z")
the bonus is strong if you tunnel vision on arabia that everyone turns into arena, but the civ is useless on better maps try playing a map with fish on it or anything where you actually have to make an army early, and you’ll see how underwhelming that civ is ---
**Author:** ![BoughtRelic9282](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/boughtrelic9282/32/55892_2.png) [@BoughtRelic9282](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/BoughtRelic9282)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2020, 10:39pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/11 "2020-10-18T22:39:14Z")
Yeah I dont think Cuman boom is OP, it’s hard to pull off and defend well until you get castle. A good opponent will punish it well with early castle age 1 tc push and use their major tech advantages to punish your greed. ---
**Author:** ![VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/violettexas3273/32/60836_2.png) [@VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/VioletTexas3273)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/12 "2020-10-19T01:41:33Z")
You think 10 more vil in feudal is op. But how long would Cuman players need to keep those vils alive to pay for themselves? Assuming all 10 vils goes to farming, and dark age farmer farms roughly 24 food/min, ignoring wheelbarrow and farm upgrade for now. That means these 10 vils need to stay alive for 2-3 min to pay for themselves before earning profit for you. During this 3 min payback period, other players who can scout rush (or other rush strategies) can easily take advantage of this and raid Cuman player super hard, while Cuman greedy boom prevents them from having resources to respond - you just spent 500 food on vils so you cannot product 6 scouts to defend. It’s a very risky investment that does not pay off immediately. Why it is suddenly becoming too OP? ---
**Author:** ![WoodsierCorn696](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/woodsiercorn696/32/29332_2.png) [@WoodsierCorn696](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/WoodsierCorn696)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/13 "2020-10-19T06:27:43Z")
Did spirit of the law made a vid about the benefits? In the long run it was about 3 vills, but in the early age they have some weak moments since they invest a lot in eco so they cant invest in military as well. So you could exploit this weakness. Seems pretty balanced to me. You can take some risk in early age to get a slight benefit in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/roomoftheevil/32/29255_2.png) [@RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/RoomOfTheEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 8:58am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/14 "2020-10-19T08:58:38Z")
Because they have palaside with bonus hp that helps them fence early agression and a TC in feudal is basically a castle. ---
**Author:** ![TougherTrack508](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/toughertrack508/32/29735_2.png) [@TougherTrack508](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TougherTrack508)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 9:08am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/15 "2020-10-19T09:08:06Z")
I don’t know what level you play at, but if Cumans are really so strong at your level you can play them for a while, and eventually you’ll rise to the level where players can punish a Cuman boom with siege/towers/Knights/Xbows/scouts If your TC gets magoneled down, you’ll wish you hadn’t build it. Please stop making these ‘nerf’ threads. You make us noobs look bad. ---
**Author:** ![VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/violettexas3273/32/60836_2.png) [@VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/VioletTexas3273)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 9:45am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/16 "2020-10-19T09:45:48Z")
That’s it? Sure, helping defending during booming, but that’s even more resources poured into booming and defending instead of building a military, or aging up, which delays Cuman castle age even further. Meanwhile, the opponent can either punish by building a military in feudal, or go up to castle age earlier than Cuman and start building knights, Xbow etc gaining technology lead. In short, Cuman two TC in feudal is exchanging long term benefits of having a couple thousands more resources than castle age booming with delayed advancing and providing the opponent a chance to raid ur eco early on. I think Cuman 2TC as it is is pretty ok. If feudal TC gets another nerf, such as even longer build time (say double the current build time), or as you say some sort of vil production nerf, then this “bonus” will no longer be a bonus. Is this the direction developer wants to go at the moment? ---
**Author:** ![RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/roomoftheevil/32/29255_2.png) [@RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/RoomOfTheEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/17 "2020-10-19T09:52:48Z")
As a direct opposite evidence to what you’ve written, check the latest daut vs villese with cuman boom that won vs slavs farming eco in castle age. ---
**Author:** ![VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/violettexas3273/32/60836_2.png) [@VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/VioletTexas3273)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 9:58am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/18 "2020-10-19T09:58:33Z")
Ok, so that’s one pro game that Cuman bonus shine, and Cuman ends up winning. Isn’t that’s what bonus suppose to be? Supporting corresponding civilisation against other civs? On another note, Goth also has no stone walls or much of early eco boost outside of cheap infantry, yet Goth becomes top tier. By proxy, Goth should be nerfed as well right? ---
**Author:** ![RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/roomoftheevil/32/29255_2.png) [@RoomOfTheEvil](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/RoomOfTheEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 10:02am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/19 "2020-10-19T10:02:13Z")
Are you changing stances now? You just said that you can do this and do that while your argument fails at a level where the civ can be fully utilized. The bonus is supposed to help you sure, and so is the farm bonus of the slavs, it is supposed to help you. Goth is top tier when you let them safely boom and that is why they don’t have strong defense early. Cuman is top tier when you let them safely boom but they have a strong defense early. See the difference here? Also, goth have early bonus and you come here discussing without knowing them. ---
**Author:** ![VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/violettexas3273/32/60836_2.png) [@VioletTexas3273](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/VioletTexas3273)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2020, 10:16am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420/20 "2020-10-19T10:16:36Z")
Ok, first, my stance is Cuman TC bonus as it is right now is ok. No change required. Goth does have that hunting bonus, but comparing it to Celts wood bonus, Mongol hunting bonus, I’d say the impact is considerably smaller. The reason is, for Celts, faster wood cutting means more wood for building etc. for Mongols, you simply get more food from deer and boar early on, boosting advancing and such. Goth having increased carry limit and bonus damage against boar imo is noticeably milder in comparison. I am not professional AOE2 player, but based on my 10 games as Cuman, I lose every single time when I want to go 2TC boom. This is not really representative for any serious purposes but I’d take that as Cuman TC bonus does offer its own unique way of providing a more dynamic feudal age in the current competitive scene. As for slav farming bonus, that one’s pay off time is also very long, and recently got a NERF, from 15% to 10%. On top of that, feudal farming scale is usually small, so the bonus have an even harder time to shine, and that’s only providing more food, instead of potentially any resource like what Cuman bonus do. [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/suggestion-balance-cumans-double-tc-boom-is-too-strong-need-nerf/104420.md?page=2)