And didn’t i pointed you to a video where goth douche almost won a game vs hera in a tournament?
You mean, a game where douche lost in a tournament ?
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Exactly. We need to be careful not to ask too much from the game devs. Somethings do not need changing in this video game. Even though this game first came out in 1999, it is remarkable well designed and has been nicely structured over the years up to today.
Some changes should be made in this game…but not too much change.
oh no, one pro almost beat another one.
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True, goth douche makes no sense. It’s almost as if he knew he would lose anyway and decided to go douche as a troll strategy. Oh wait, isn’t that what you keep denying ?
First time you quoted a MASTAPIECE from Viper, now you quote a game where the player went full troll again and LOST (“almost won”). Maybe it’s time to ask yourself some questions
You are probably 1000 Elo lower than these 2 players so I’m not sure you can tell Daut what he should have done, let alone compare yourself to Viper.
Sure I’m the one insulting people here
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I think you need to grab a dictionary and look at what an “argument” is. Might as well read some grammar books while you’re at it.
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I’ve seen Tatoh almost winning in a tournament with Celt Hussar+HCA combo. Does it mean it’s a viable strat for the civ? If it works so well, imagine how well it works for Korean or Ethiopian. And Bulgarian and Tatars must be super broken right? Right?
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thats just childish behaviour
Playing around weaknesses of celts that what pros always been good in also wonder if paladin+hca would worked too
Stay on topic and refrain from personal insults and attacks.
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From Spirit of the law.
This shows the number of vills comparing a 2TC Cuman boom vs FC into 3 TC boom. In the end they have 3 vills more then usual.
From same vid.
You will see Cumans indeed ends up with more resources overall, but they also have some weak periods. You need to take advantage of those weaknesses. If you succeed, then their eco would be even worse than yours. Also without a good BO you will be still behind in eco playing as Cumans.
For me, this will proof Cumans feudal boom isnt OP and dont need a nerf at all.
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Spirit of the law doesn’t know how to play the game bro, he is a youtuber, i have several videos getting +50 vills min 17 with cumans, his graphs shows it at min +18, such a bad comparison, in fact i think that i can get another 2 extra vills lead by going up faster to feudal and i always choose to get stone for kipchaks, if the BO is modified ic an get imperial min 23 and produce cavalier or halb siege ram push.
There is another guy 2k in aoczone doing a boom comparison, cumans had more resources in the bank, while khmer had more villagers, but that was before the slight nerf on khmer farms, so yeah if cumans can get around same villager but way more rsources in the bank, their push is obviusly stronger and faster, heck they don’t even need to get imperial to melt walls and castles.
Knowing the math behind the game and knowing how to execute it well are two different things. So you can be bad in playing the game, but you can have a good mathematical background of the game. These graphs arent about his execution, but about the math behind the game. I dont think you cant argue that much about the graph of the vill numbers.
There are just some fixed times. It takes 25 seconds to create a villager, doing loom takes 25 seconds as well. Researching feudal age is 2:10 minutes.
You can just calculate such up tiimes, given your build. I find this one on Reddit. There is no discussion at all about this table. If you go for 20 pop 2TC boom, you hit feudal age in the perfect world at 9.15.
Looking at what Spirit of the Law did, then you can only argue about some assumptions which would slightly change the curve of the number of vills:
- At which pop do you go up to feudal? 20 or 21? Maybe you can even do some 19 pop stuff. Every pop lower will add an extra vill in the long run.
- Do you skip loom? You will have an extra vill in the longrun. I dont advice skipping loom early. You can argue otherwise. You might get an extra vill in the long run.
- With how many villagers do you build the second TC? Building it with more vills, means it is up quicker. But you also had less vills working in the mean time. So you might dont have the resources to create villagers if you use to much villagers. If i remember well, SOTL when for 8. You might be able to get the TC up bit quicker, but i dont think it matter that much. It might give you extra vill in the long run, but i dont think you can save another 25 seconds of the building time to build it with more vills.
Except those points, there is nothing to argue about. His graph just shows the vills count given his assumptions on the questions above. So there isnt really much to disagree with the graph…
At the same way you can have a look at the resources as well. It will give some other assumptions, like the workrate of villagers, when to do the upgrades. But that is pretty much all you can argue.
You also might understand that Cumans invest a lot in eco and almost nothing in military. So they have a lot of resources, but there defense is still weak. That is way you want to push the cuman player in early castle. In feudal age you dont have the units to push his TC. In castle age you do have siege available. In early castle, they are still stuck in the feudal age. So you have a tech advantage as well. So that period is their weak spot. The best strategy to punish a Cuman boom is to go for a fast castle followed by a push.
If you only look at late game, then Cumans would have the most resources. I do agree. In the long run the feudal boom pays off. I have no doubt about that. Does that makes a civ OP? I dont think so. They have a big weakness in early castle age. They really need to survive at that point of time. That makes it a trade off. Weak in early age, but strong in the late game.
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You proved nothing man, wtf, all those climate deniers in this topic, they all said+8 vills or 10 which is clearly not close to what they can achieve, you posted those graphs and i just pointed how bad they are, 50 villager min 16:30 and i can get +2 vills by going 17 pop feudal age, even skip upgrade tecs to avoid iddle tc which even 16 pop which will add more villagers.
The graphics are wrong trying to show something but clearly they are almost 10 vills behind.
Then give me the correct graphics please and point out where the math is off. I am glad to learn from you.
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even in the noob map scenarios with uninterrupted boom, you have to take into account the period of several minutes while castle age is being researched where cuman is only making from 1 TC while other players are making from 4
obviously cuman will be ahead at 17 minutes because they’re producing from 2 TCs while others have been producing from 0 (because they actually got to castle age)
Correct, usually the fc with cumans is late 19 or early 20, with 64 vills, 35 farmers, more than enough to actually clean a player,capped rams, 3 stables constant production while other civs would have more or even the same vills but without the extra resources than the cuman feudal boom offers, that is the point i never claimed they had more vills than pure fc boom, in fact i said khmer has a bigger villager lead at certain minute.
And yeah that early boom economy has no match.
Ofc i got angry because this guy is showing new players graphics, pretending than the cuman boom is only like 3 vills ahead, i am just trying to explain him with evidence that his graphic couldn’t be more wrong, cuman feudal boom has a larger vill lead than the used in those graphics, meaning everything is wrong.
the other civs do have similar resources. they’re just stored in two extra town centers (because it’s 4 TC vs 2 TC)
once cuman adds TCs 3 and 4 (750 resources + lots of building time) the lead isn’t anything special
finding a scenario where you get uninterrupted free boom AND find a way to make TC 3 & TC 4 idle is not very realistic. maybe the game has some of those maps, but they’re not really RM maps. they’re more like gimmicks that the devs have forced into the RM pool
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