[Suggestion Balance] Reduce pierce armor of Elite plumed archer by 1 or reduce attack bonus

[RoomOfTheEvil]

To everyone here saying why would you make spears against mayans, you don’t but it affects them in team games. If a team has cavs and it is mixed with plumed, it is a huge bonus for mayans team and that is why every archer only has 2 as bonus for spearman line. Japanese samurai’s, the counter to UU, don’t counter plumed because of their infantry bonus and speed. A mix of samurai and halbs do nothing against cavaliers and plumed archers. A mix of samurai and arbalest don’t do much vs cavliers and plumed because of their pierce and a mix of halbs and arbalest don’t do much because halbs melt and arbalest can’t cause enough damage. Siege isn’t that much of an option if you don’t have siege onager against plumed (or cavs) as they tank it.

In fact overall, this isn’t a nerf for them. It is a buff in 1 vs 1 but a nerf in team games (if chosen the attack nerf option). The nerf is to be done to eldorado and is already referred in my other thread.

@GaseousGorgon83

Is there way to add someone to some sort of block list so i dont need to read more topics from this guy ?

Ignore the thread… ? Did i come to your house and force your head to read it?

[WoodsierCorn696]

In most team games everyone goes for a gold unit. So of course halbs and arbalest loose against cavalier and plumes. That seems like a game in which the halb player made the wrong unit and thus you loose.

[Nheltarion]

@RoomOfTheEvil

A mix of samurai and halbs do nothing against cavaliers and plumed archers

Why the hell should you go samurai and spears in team game where the go to composition is archers + cavalry. Ofc you are going to lose against cavalry+ archers, why are you even surprised

[Nheltarion]

@phoenix1089

he’s making infantry to counter the eagles

as you can clearly see from his answer, no 11

[CactusSteak2171]

@RoomOfTheEvil

that is why every archer only has 2 as bonus for spearman line

Parthian tactics cough

@RoomOfTheEvil

Japanese samurai’s, the counter to UU, don’t counter plumed because of their infantry bonus and speed

The only UU archers the Samurai can reliably counter are the one microed by your cat when you look away 11 More seriously, I only found one game so far where they did good vs an archer UU. Mr.Yo won with mostly samurai vs Tatoh who was Vietnamese, but Tatoh didn’t have enough rattans and had to make skirms, and those aren’t good vs any gold infantry anyway.

[RoomOfTheEvil]

@CactusSteak2171

Parthian tactics cough

with the cost of the cav archer?

@CactusSteak2171

I only found one game so far where they did good vs

It is because japanese are a bit underwhelming currently. I am thinking if i should open a thread to buff samurai for +1 pierce and more movement.

[FurtherLime7936]

@RoomOfTheEvil

if i should open a thread to buff

Seriously you will gain more hate if you continue with this pattern

[RoomOfTheEvil]

If people hate me for suggesting balance changes, the problem aren’t the threads really.

[CactusSteak2171]

@RoomOfTheEvil

with the cost of the cav archer?

They end up with +6 against spears. And they have better base attack than plumes.

@FurtherLime7936

Seriously you will gain more hate if you continue with this pattern

Actually if he proposed more speed and PA for samurai that would be his first relevant buff proposition.

[FurtherLime7936]

@CactusSteak2171

Actually if he proposed more speed and PA for samurai that would be his first relevant buff proposition.

Ya I think that Samurai could get some love but I talk about him with his endless nerf posts so the people won’t take that friendly. Remember the one that do that and near everyone started to hate him, and even we halted the famous one of the AOEzone

[CactusSteak2171]

But if he does a thread that isn’t about nerfing stuff for no reason that should be fine right?

[RoomOfTheEvil]

@CactusSteak2171

They end up with +6 against spears. And they have better base attack than plumes.

Balanced by their cost. And training time.

[CactusSteak2171]

Plumes comes out of castle so the TT point is meh. And cost matters less in TG.

[RoomOfTheEvil]

Also Rattan comes out of a castle.

Cost still matters for vills working on resources. For cav archer constant production means more vills working.

@phoenix1089

he’s making infantry to counter the eagles, and then the plumes are rekking his infantry (im giving him the benefit of the doubt) this is especially important if playing a civ that doesnt have great cav.

This is true, my case was in general for combined forces of plumed but fixes this problem as well.

@phoenix1089

also pierce attack in the game is incredibly finely tuned, +1 pierce attack or PA has a MUCH bigger effect than +1 or even +2 melee attack/armour

I wouldn’t say this. It feels like this because melee ‘attack’ is used by slow moving units as well, such as infantry while pierced is used by range units.

@phoenix1089

the plumed archer is not great against many targets because of its low pierce damage, by buffing it (even if you’re nerfing the bonus damage) you are giving it a ton more utility, +1 pierce damage gives it a lot more fire power vs higher pierce targets (like cav), doing 4 damage per shot instead of only 3 against FU cavaliers.

Against massed plumed that can run away with their speed, you aren’t going to charge in low cavalier number. They will get the same as arbalester.