Suggestion changes on tower and Mongol

While Mongol labeled as “Aggerssion, Cavalry, Nomadic”, it is currently more like “Tower, Rush Castle, Siege”. Those suggestion are by my experience of trying different Mongol strategies at higher level.

Tower rush is strong, not only Mongol is tower rushing now, but also China, Rus, Eng. On the other hand, outside tower rush other Mongol strategies seems weak. Not much choice of strategies beside tower rush or rush castle. Just like I said before, all other strategies got nerfed more than tower rush, when devs tried to nerf tower rush/quick castle.


  1. 1000 → 750 hp, Rus wooden tower 2000 → 1500 hp
  2. Villager do extra 10 torch damage (So as Barbican of the Sun)
  3. Fortify outpost: Moves to age3, 1000->750 hp
  4. Mongol Tower provide 20sec buff to Cav & Trader (Not for other units even with upgrade)

Currently tower is hard to kill even without any unit to protect, with fewer hp/ villager bonus. Forward tower could be burned down way quickly, meanwhile fewer impact on defensive towers. The Mongol speed changes was aimed for tower rush but nerfed other play style instead. Keep may also need a nerf too.

Mongol eco:

  1. Remove ovoo 50% bonus on Pasture
  2. Ger 100 → 75 wood
  3. Steppe Redoubt 50%->30% gold drop off bonus, -20% cost/time eco upgrade
  4. Hunting rate +10%

Currently starting goldstone location have too much impact on Mongol, removing pasture bonus and cheaper ger reduce the problem of RNG. Steppe Redoubt bonus is too simple/strong, make Mongol always try to rush to castle. Changes also make Mongol have more incentive to flight for hunt, rather than make pastures and ignore other food sources.

Mongol units/landmark

  1. Mongol receive free regular Horseman upgrade once age2
  2. Mangudai rework
  3. Khaganate Palace able to choose units
  4. Khan no longer same order as scout in formation
  5. Able to make all military building at age1 (Units are still locked by age)

Early horseman is more like a penalty than bonus for Mongol. Mangudai wasn’t even a good unit in high level game before mongol multiple nerfs, and it is getting another nerf in pup as horseman has more armor. Unlike Horse Archer or Camel Archer, their base damage is low vs horseman/heavy units, also very low hp for it cost, likely the weakest civ unique unit in the game. On the other hand, lower elo players hate them epically in team games.

Khan leading in formation, causing it got pushed by melee units to front line and die. Able to make archer range at age1, means it can make units quicker once age2, also build not blocked by scout if ovoo far away. Overall, changes to make Mongol able to flight at age2 without tower rush rather than rushing castle.

meanwhile Khaganate Palace.

I don’t know so much. For me the mongols leaves me a mixed feeling.
While I get the Mangudai being incredible weak on paper. I keep using and finding great success with them.
But it might be due to the way I use my units.

I always split my armies, and use mangudai groups in pretty much IRL mongol tactics, by baiting and luring enemie armies into my main armies, by running around the enemies and raiding their econ (Mangudai are devastating against villagers due to their fire on the move ability).
The Mangudai also pretty strong in the Feudal and early castle with the Improved Shia Bow giving them +1 range and damage, while it doesn’t sound like much, for those early knights and maa it actually does significant amount of damage, as you can just run circles around them.

However, that being said, using mangudai is incredibly APM intensive.
And It would be hard to balance the unit appropriately.

personally I for me, I think Mangudai should have range of maximum 5 tiles.
But that might actually make them being weak units into overpowered units quickly, simply with range change.
As I notice with the Imp. Shia Bows already does such a significant difference for them.

but I do agree that the Kurultai is greatly underappreciated and overshadowed by the Steppe Redoubt.
And the Deer Stones being much more practical than silver tree most of the times.

They need to make the alternate landmarks more attractive.

Khaganate Palace is a joke in comparison with pretty much any landmarks out there.
While the concept is good (giving you a small army) The amount of unit it gives is far to little and to little value in comparison to all the double-unit production you can get out of the white Stupa.

Imo, Would be far more interesting if the Khaganate Palace not only gave you a small army, but sort of function like the Chinese Clockwork tower, giving you Special Mangudai / lancers and Horsemen with boosted traits or something.

Agree on TR being too widely used. I’ve seen it as a huge blow when they reduced the ovoo stone production in early ages. Imo nerving towers even more in dark and maybe also feudal ages while leaving the stone production as it was should have done the trick. That would have preserved mongols aggressive playstyle in dark and feudal age.

It should also effect villagers + they should be more pushed to gather resources around the map, instead of camping sheeps from start to finish

I like this! HP on towers nerf would make it much more approachable to destory after being surrounded. Force more ppl to upgrade with stone upgrade

the villager’s damage cannot be in all epochs, there is a player who has won only playing with villagers

I think the Mongol TR is ineffective against English because his villagers have arrows, and I still think it’s a good idea, at least in dark times

I dont think mongols need any more nerfs, they are quite competitive now and right now they are good at every age which should be the aim for all civs.
As for towers, i think towers in general need some tweaks

Mangudai is trash in age2 especially. Towers and there is no raid for Mangudai, horseman and knight are way better raid units for that. You can’t out APM tower in aoe4.

You make too much Mangudai? Great, now you can’t win any battle and likely die to spear/horseman/knight + archer. It used to do better vs horseman, but horseman got armor buff, and Mangudai lost the network speed buff.

They aren’t strong on release, and got multiple indirect nerfs. It is like devs forgot about it, when they adjust Mongol or buff horseman. Camel Archer was always better, but they gave it more dmg to counter horseman/heavy units. (Even vs non-cav it is much stronger)

Well depends how you use them.
I dont use them as a core unit, more of a complimentary unit for my khan. enough to chase and kill the khan and deny any expansion for the opponent.
Horsemen and Mangudai complement each other really well, Horsemen being able to soak up most of the damage.
and the way the unit run in formation when group together, always makes sure that the mangudais are in the back, being able to shoot at any chasers, and the horsemen being the first targets in range.

So far I’m having rather good success with it. For the lategame, the mangudai becomes rather lackluster, they are only nice when mixing in with some other units for support, or to make a patrol squad to counter any raids or outmanuvering by the opponent.

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They can make siege towers not require siege engineering and allow villagers to build them. Then the added bonus to siege towers will be once the siege tower latches onto a tower (or stone tower or keep) it will slow burn the tower down and also cancel all damage coming from the tower as long as it is latched. Siege towers cost 160 wood? I believe they left the build time at 40s? If not then reduce it back to 40s. But of course to continue to allow counter play between aggression and defensive only give the siege tower 280 hp with 30 range resist. So then the new play will work like so.

1.I’m china and i built a tower on hre gold mine and place 3 spearsmen inside.
2.Hre pulls vills away and some seconds later come back to my tower with a siege tower and villagers inside the siege tower.
3. I see the siege tower approaching so i ungarrison my spears and begin to attack the siege tower as it approaches.
4. Immediately hre pops villagers out of siege tower to repair the siege tower as it continues to approach my tower.
5. The hre villagers and my spears continue to play cat and mouse until the siege tower reaches my tower and nullifies all tower dmg and the siege tower burns my tower at a rate of 5 scouts 50 siege dmg, 2s attack speed. Which would take 40s to burn 1 tower.
6. The combination of siege tower dmg and villagers torch dmg that tower will go down safely.

3 spears at 6 dmg and 1.75s attack speed would take 28s to burn the siege tower so villagers would have to do some repairing so it wouldn’t be full stop to tower rushing when you consider the 160w invesment the 40s build time and the idle time walking and repairing the siege tower as needed and popping villagers in and out of the siege tower.