Suggestion for civs that lack certain unit types

Swedes don’t have regular skirmishers but they have an infinite skirmisher and dragoon cards. I think similar things can be done to some older civs that have very limited access or really lack a unit type, especially for those very useful mid-late game units like skirmishers, dragoons, etc. Either give them an unlimited card, or a card (or church tech) that enables permanent training of that unit later in the game.

It seems the design of vanilla and TWC civs is that some civs would completely lack a unit type, but new civs added later usually have a way to access the unit types that they don’t have (consulates, Swedes infinite unit cards, US legion cards, now the African alliances). I think older civs should also have the ability to do that.

BTW, for the 1000th time, unique church techs really need a serious rework. Right now most of them are completely pointless, or really underwhelming.


Dutch kinda have that with thier unique church, Aztec Lakota and Germans would be the ones with some kind of way, for Aztec and Lakota maybe they could have a card like Inca where they can pick a native alliance option without needing a native tp, but the options given would be different and the card would not be an age 1 card like Inca, one of the options given could have musks since I think that’s what they both miss.

For Germans it could be an advanced church, Germans advanced church is kinda bad as it is now anyways.


Church cards are one-time and that’s 1 card + 1 quite expensive tech. It would be better if these techs also unlock the training of the respective unit.

You seem to be talking about two things: Advanced Church and Gaps in unit types.

German advanced church is good for my type of play…and ironically the ottoman seem to be missing the free technology in their advanced mosque card.

Well as for missing unit types:

That’s what mercenaries, native/consulate alliances and outlaws are for. they’re your auxiliaries.

Some civs like USA really need them
Others like France don’t.

Even Native americans civ have auxilaries even if they’re not mercenaries…like renegade european units.

That’s what I mean. Mercenaries are random and most cards are limited. They are much less accessible than the new civs, who could directly train the unit in unlimited quantities.


I agree, like making Manchu available for China with atonement card as well. Or simply making outlaws more viable like better than a regular unit without upgrades (same rate of fire) but more expensive in gold and somewhat more expensive in pop (but not as much as right now).

For India which lacks anti infantry artillery…

Remove heavy infantry neg multiplier from mahouts to allow them to fill a lancer role. Can decrease the infantry multiple to compensate. Also increase the speed of flail to 4.5 atleast, so they fall less often…

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It’s too bad this DLC didn’t address these issues. More civs are great and something we all want but if the Euro civs are just gonna get left behind than that really isn’t good for the game.

I think adding new age politicians for them will solve this. Let’s face it, 500 food or 8 skirmishers really isn’t that interesting compared to what is offered now which enable all kinds of cool strats for Africa and USA. The church upgrades is also a viable idea.


There’s a simple way to make mercenaries and outlaws work:

If you ship the theatres/dance hall/atonement card outlaws become usable and reliable, no need for drastic changes.

When you ship in a batch of mercenaries you are enabled to get them from the tavern, but sweden srill getting them at military boilings instead as they currently do. That way a player can guarantee certain mercenaries by building their deck.

As for native americans…when they get renegade europeans they can get them at their native embassy.


I like what you are saying. As long as the theatres/dance hall/atonement is actually worth at least the equivalent to a 700resource shipment in power, cause you would be giving away that one to ship the card.

Without the upgrades tho. Maybe in barracks with limited numbers like the Mohawk for British age up. And perhaps change Mohawk to a Skirm like unit that would be more useful for Brits.

Dance Hall (and the like) is worth it IF you’re making outlaws it stops them being being a huge load.

As for my mercenary suggestion…I think it’s sensible and reasonable and fits in with the new civs (Swedes, Inca, USA, African) . Basically to chose the mercenaries at the tavern…rather than rely on luck.

Right but except for Goon-type Outlaw, the rest do pretty poorly with their 1.5 rof, specially in the early/mid game when people mostly kite and do not engage in prolonged combat.

But they do have 4,5 movement speed.

seria legal se todas as civis europeias tivessem alianças com a embaixada nativa assim como os incas e americanos


I’ve had a thorough look at your origin post and I have come to the conclusion is yes, you’re right.

While Outlaws are a way to fill in a gap regardless of cards and Dance Hall cards could benifit from a small buff to give it a little more tempo. I’ve come to like your original idea. The church cards could be a way to adjust some of the gaps in the civs ‘army units’ and fill in with auxilaries.

This is only for the European civilizations, not the the native american or asians civs

British: Missing Skirmisher (longbows are not the same), Halberdier (But their Pikeman can be upgraded to guard level); Their church card sucks

Since their lack of Skirmisher is supplemented with two shipments of Jeagers and Cherokee Rifleman…The Roger’s Rangers at the church upgrade is superfluous and Thin Red line is more of a demerit…Slow speed is okay for musketeers but for everything else it’s bad…limit it to Grenadiers and Musket units and Rename Roger’s Rangers to 95th rifles that renames the skirmishers to Greenjackets and allow Greenjackets to be trained at Baracks, Galleon and Fort.

French: Missing Grenadier; Their church card might need tweaking but otherwise good

French have a full roster of standard units except for Grenadier which they can through the advanced church. Code Napolean’s demerit is too much change it to 20% and it would be fair.

Dutch: Missing Musketeer; Their church card is satisfactory

Not much to say about Dutch, with Ruyters they may not need musketeers but if they so wish they have a good roster of mercenaries to chose from (and pleanty of gold income). Their Church card has good choices (including alot of musketeers) and Coffee trade is a fair tradeoff.

German: Missing Musketeer; Grenadier Their church card is satisfactory

The german’s church card is good except wallenstein’s contracts is so expensive that you’d have already shipped your mercenaries before you could afford it.
But since germany does rely on mercenaries (since their royal guard skirmishers are actually the weakest RG, and WW are slow). Enable german mercenary contracts to be sent infinite times.

Spanish: Missing Grenadiers; Their church card sucks

Spanish may lack grenadiers but I don’t think they need them, Corselet might be better than thin red line but it’s still bad…Rodelero’s and Pikemen need their speed, It’s also unoriginal. How about changing it completely it’s just not worth it. And the other upgrades aren’t worth shipping the card…Halberdeir? I already have pikes and rods. Harquebusiers? I’d rarther ship stradiots than send the church card just for them.

Portugal: Missing Grenadiers; Their church doesn’t suck

You can live without grens as for the church
It’s interesting that they get Royal Guard Crossbowman and a lot of them, the mill bonus is a fair trade off and Black Riders are cool.
I don’t feel the need to make any changes here

Ottoman: Missing Archiac Units; Church card only has 2 techs compared to three of europeans.

The advanced Mosque card is missing a 3rd tech, this could be: ‘Jihad: Allows you to train Pikeman and Crossbowman from the barracks, fort and galleon’

Russia: Missing Pikeman and pop efficient skirms; Church card is good

The russian church card is good, but their mercenaries shipments are all over the place and generally not useful to russian players.
They need Iron Troops or Jeagers (or the new cannoneers) in age III for their auxilaries.


i think you’re completely missing the point of the church cards delivering guard units. The spanish card delivers age 4 halbs, those things pack a punch. Same with Rogers rangers, those are automatically upgraded to guard status. you want brits to get age 4 skirms AND be able to train them with the upgrades already researched for free? yeah corslet and thin red line are awful but like, those 1 time unit pops are massive value for cost and can be game winning


Portuguese church cards suck ■■■■, that’s why almost no one uses Treaty of Tordesillas in their deck. Royal Xbows are useless since you can get fully upgraded (+15; +15) Caçadores and can get them anyway through the Papal Guard politician, the mill bonus is only useful if the map has no water, and even then, if it has TPs, Portuguese would rather put Advanced TP in their decks and Black Riders are kind of pointless since you have Ginete Dragoons by that time. Seriously, the Besteiros card was so bad, that they had to cut the cost of the card by 400 wood for DE, to make it even remotely appealing and people still don’t put ToT in their decks.

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honestly i would argue its worse for musk since they almost always have to get closer to start firing than their opponents and 30 hp frankly ain’t going to save you in almost any scenario.

personally i dont think britain should have skirmishers, the faction is close to fine, their biggest issue is actually art since it trains really slowly and has nothing special about it (i mean 2 infinite rockets is fine but thats it)

they can also train them if they send grenade launcher card

i really dont think this is a good or necessary change, ottoman have abus which are much better than crossbows anyhow so why use them? pikemen are straight up a bad unit.


The point about getting the Halbs is they are superfluous Spanish have two options for hand as army units. Stop looking at things in a vacuum British already have 2 jeager shipments not to mention that the german church card gives dopps +10% and the ports get RG Crossbows.

So in addition to getting the units they get a little extra considering that british already has options to get skirm units little harm is done.

You need a whole seperate building for abus guns and they are expensive. Pikes and xbows are somewhere between what I would call army units and what I would call auxiliaries. They are obsoleted by better units but they’re not useless. Pikes are better at stopping cav from rushing abus guns than abus are for sure. And X-bows are cheap. It’s the age 2 to age 3 where Ottoman struggle. Jans cost a lot of food which you need for age up and cavalry. Abus are expensive and an obvious and easy targets for hussar where your jans have trouble stopping when numbers are low.

It’s obviously more suited for treaty games…But it doesn’t suck and BTW Black Rider has a stronge melee resist but still has dragoon move speed so use them in melee mode to chase down those expensive cavalry your opponent doesn’t want to lose like cuirs.

i am most certainly not looking at things in a vacuum. you are saying its perfectly reasonable for britain to magically get upgraded skirms in age 4 at their barracks they can then train for the usual cost of 50f 65c. With their incredible economy and strong anticavalry options. Jaegers cost bulk coin you have to stack, and a shipment. Rogers Rangers behave similarly. Guard longbows and horse cannons perfectly fill the roles of taking down ranged cavalry and heavy infantry, respectively. Not every euro civ needs every euro unit. it’s not balanced around that, and brits is already one of the strongest age 4 civs, the last thing they need is trainable shadowtech guard skirmishers after what is one of the strongest age 4 church card power spikes.

The guard halbs aren’t really superfluous, the guard halb pop has been used since 2005 in a lightning fast ff with the strongest anticav possible at such a timing. They are, in a hypothetical situation where spain could train them, rather redundant, but that tech is one of the most used unit pops and definitely one of the strongest in age 3, since rods and pikes need to get the vet status and, prior to this logistician cheese being accessible, spain didnt have the eco for goons most of the time and often short on time or resources to vet their melee inf without slowing down too much. Plus, halbs beat other melee infantry and have high siege, something rods don’t do well.