not sure if its been suggested here before, but in fear of necroing a thread:
currently once a player reaches castle age, the eagle scout automatically gets the training time decreased to 35 seconds(from 60). The Eagles Scout also receives a +3 base attack buff(from 4 up to 7), as well as +2 attack bonus against cavalry and +1 attack bonus against camels.
while the eagle warrior upgrade “only” gives +5 hp, +1 PA, and +0.05 speed
eagle scouts/warriors are also an extremely cost effective unit in feudal/ castle due to the upfront cost of gathering food, as well as the slower rate. meaning a gold heavy unit is far more viable, directly opposite to the eagle’s counter(militia line)
as compensation, i thought a slight nerf to the eagle scout in castle age might curb the ease with which eagle scouts are used. so reduce only the eagle scout damage from 7 down to 6. it also makes the eagle warrior upgrade more pertinent, without over nerfing the viability of the unit over the long term.
ultimately i think it would be best to see a change in which resources are used(-5g +10f). but thought this is a good interim change
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Another post that asks for a gold discount for an unit, this time it’s the Eagle.
Let’s Keshikize every unit, A to Z.
Posts here become so systematic.
disagree, Eagle Scout getting attack upgaraded to 7 makes sense. The Warrior upgrade gives you
speed and PA. With upgrade, you can run under TC, without, not really.
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you make an interesting point the resources necessary for EW could be easily spent on more eagle scouts. In contrast the prospect of postponing the Crossbow, upgrades in favor of massing more Archers is simply unheard of.
EagleWarrior: cost 200F 200G and provides +5 hp, +1 PA, and +0.05 SP
Chain Mail Armor and Squires: 300F 100G provides +1/1 and .11 SP would argue that the 1 MA and .06 SP more than make up for the -5 hp.
So by researching Squires and the 2nd armor upgrade for the same resource I can have a Eagle scout that is just as strong as an Eagle warrior without those upgrades if not stronger.
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tell me you didn’t understand without actually saying you didn’t understand.
Next time just say “I don’t understand this post” instead of this
Why? You say one thing and then say an unrelated thing as if it justifies the first thing.
Exactly. It’s well known , the EW upgrade is a low priority.
That being said the point isn’t necessarily to make the upgrade more important, it’s dually to make the initial power spike weaker.
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Because you clearly need hand holding
The most important Res until imperial age is food
The slowest income of Res is food
The Res that has the highest upfront cost is food
The eagle, uses almost no food. So without considering any other stats we can already deduce it is a cost effective unit due to opportunity cost.
Now we combine that with a very good range of stats, bonuses Vs almost everything that matters, isn’t countered by trash, can’t be converted (unlike Knights) resistant to archers, massable from feudal (unlike Knights)
We end up with a very good, cost effective unit.
How can we address this? Nerf the stats makes it worse in the long run. Mesos already struggle longer term.
So the alternative, increase food cost, keep the stats up, simply make it more punishing to mass, like other melee units. But even then it will still be far more cost effective than knights due to opportunity cost of gold at that stage of the game.
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it’s the same logic of why Scout-line goes from 3 → 5 attack when you hit Feudal. Eagle Warrior isn’t rly a scout unit but also a combat unit so even unupgraded it should be threatening and it should not be threatening locked behind an upgrade. The upgrades you get (armor, EW upgrade, Squires) make it a RAIDING unit but you don’t want to be stuck with some 5 attack Eagle Scouts in Castle when Berbers opponent has already 5 Knights because Eagles are weaker than Knights (lose with equal resources spent, but also require more barracks to produce, etc.).
Also a big part of meso is the snowball potential they can get when you mess up vs a meso civ, if meso didn’t have this snowball potential there would be NO POINT playing them, what’s the point of playing civs with no Stable and most of them don’t even have full eco upgrades or faster resource gathering etc. Eagle Warrior is meant to be a Castle Age power unit and part of its threat is that meso opponent MIGHT start massing them in their base during Feudal Age (you can’t do same with Knights).
I can’t explain Eagle balancing any better than this, either you understand this or I can’t write anything more because if you disagree with this you probably think that “meso should suck at every age of the game” or something similar.
it’s not, every upgrade is a high priority, the only one that’s truly low priority is +2 attack.
You need +2 armor to run under TCs, you need Arson to pressure buildings thru repairing villagers, you need Squires cuz speed is always good, you need EW upgrade cuz it’s still an improvement.
Do you need to take run under and take out TC’s. with 4 PA your eagle are good enough to counter archers and kill villagers under tc fire assuming they lack bodkin which is reasonable when you are going eagle. While it is satisfying to eat TC’s you are investing a lot of resource in order to do so which might not be able to do so at all depending on the state of the game. And unless you opponent has significant Eco lead is killing 5 villagers and idling a third of their Eco will usually win you the game.
Run under TC I mean… run under TC and idle eco. Nobody talked about destroying the TC.