Suggestion to balance the spanish

YOU DO NOT NEED Elite Conq. you do not need husbandry or bloodlines. i see pros play without both quite a lot.

and you ignore the cost of imperial age when factoring that in.

You agree with me then. I can’t say they are better than hand cannons but im only saying that you need all upgrades inorder to mass them and continue creating them in imp or they will fall apart.

What about Bohemians?

blatantly false. you don’t need husbandry. you don’t need bloodlines. you definitely don’t need imperial age or elite conq upgrade.
what you do need is a castle. that’s it. then just use some good micro tyo keep them alive.

Never used past a certain elo. Just the worst thing you can do with best civ for that map. You’ll always lose with that strat if you play vs someone who knows to counter it.

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yeah? do spanish have castle age chemistry? do spanish need a buff? yes they do.
but your entire premise on conqs is flat false.
your premise that spanish are gonna go hand cannons is also false.

Take a moment to realise that im not talking about spanish hand cannons but about hand cannons being viable.
At least with you

hand cannons are viable. perfectly fine. but this is literally a thread about spanish. so why would you be talking about hand cannons in general?
the point i made was about spanish not using hand cannons was because they had conqs.

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but lithuanians, burgundians, bohemians, and several other civs all do use them.

now why don’t you think about why a civ like turks or spanish don’t use hand cannons predominately.

Why can’t you guys accept the principle that economical bonuses are optional not mandatory, stop stuffing every civ with eco bonuses. Some, few civs simply dont have ones and that’s what beautiful about this game. It’s a strategy game, you can compensate the fact they lack eco strenght by giving them strong military option (that’s one way to do it, Conq for the Spanish, Magyar having both FU Paladin and FU Arbs and FU CA etc)

I mean okay… Spanish were already strong in Imp, but I get this one.

Nonsense, instead of elegantly balancing Missionaries and making them a viable option, you turned them into a luxurious niche, you actually need now a Castle, to invest in an UT, in order to use them.
Besides making them even less viable, and further killing diversity, you made Spanish rely even more on building a Castle in order to justify and utilize their identity.

Upgrading monks into missionaries doesn’t really work in principle because you’re upgrading a unit that only benefits from monk techs into a unit that also benefits from cav upgrades, but upgrades don’t add armour classes or make units be affected by more upgrades. And if you wanna break this rule you could do so before shafting the unit, because let’s be real it’s much faster to send unupgraded monks straight away rather than wait for a castle + UT, and they don’t convert faster anymore.

maybe in a forest nothing yes but in ranked games civs without an eco bonus are nearly unplayable at a high level.

i can’t see how they are less viable now that they are the only option as a monk upgrade XD.

Better investing in faster and higher hp monks than in a tech that boost a random thing. Misionaries are a meme unit you like it or not and 99% of the games you go monks.

if spanish identity is having a useless meme unit that is worst than the average monk then they don’t have it.

As it’s a unit rework they will work differently, adding the extra hp and speed from stable when researched the tech bcos it’s part of the upgrade.

Not true.
Byzantines, Incas, Magyars, Bulgarians…

Instead of ruining all the mid-tier civs, how about nerfing the S tier ones?

You need a Castle up to make them, and the eco to afford a tech, it’s basically a luxurious post-boom tech now. Just like the previous Monk tech Spanish had, too bad it’s now the only way to create Missionaries.

So buff Missionaries directly, instead of turning Spanish further into a clown civ.

Incas literally have multiple eco bonuses
But more to the point all 4 of these civs are, at best, middld of the road.

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Byz and Bulgarians are genuinely good civs and Magyars suffer more from having basically only 2 civ bonuses rather than not having an eco bonus.


Good civs but not great.

If you want to boost a civ to top tier, some sort of eco bonus is all but required

Uh I don’t feel like anyone wanted to boost Spanish to S tier. If that’s what the OP wanted it’s not happening anyway with a bonus that tries to be bad Bulgarians or bad Burgundians.


You need a castle anyways to make conqs so it’s not a big issue.You should instead look the changes i suggest as a whole thing.