Suggestions for some Civ reworks for the next patch


So I made this topic to share some ideas with people here, and with the devs, for some Civilization reworks.
I am not an expert player, though I like watching videos from expert matches. My ideas focus mainly on Unique Technologies, just like the last patch had some changes regarding (useless) UT’s.

The ideas started with watching some video SOTL made on the worst UT’s (Thanks for all the great videos SOTL!). These made me think about what makes a good Civ bonus and what makes a good UT. I came up with the following conclusion:
Unique technologies add an option to civilizations, and for a UT to be fun or interesting, this technology should have to be a consideration in every game. I would argue that a UT is badly designed if you either research it every game or when you research it never. Therefore, the best designed, or most fun UT’s imo are those that serve a certain strategy. For example, the new Slav UT leads into fortifying the map with castles/towers and into massing Boyars. Badly designed UT are ones that fit every strategy and are therefore never considered, or ones that lead into a strategy that is too underpowered for that civ to be considered.

My ideas do try to take civ balance into account, but are mainly meant to provide more interesting options for the civs, or build into their identity. Some ideas might not be welcomed by everyone. Suggestions and critique are more than welcome, insults less so.

The Celts stronghold UT is, according to SOTL, underpowered. I would suggest making this a civ bonus for the Celts from the start, or make the bonus one that adds HP to castles. Also, personally, I would be okay with the sheep stealing bonus being removed.

For the Chinese, I would suggest making the Great Wall UT a civ bonus at start. As a new civ bonus, I would suggest making the +50% HP for Demo ships into a UT and add a speed boost to the ships as well.

As this is already the case for multiple UT’s, why not let Atheism give a conversion resistance bonus?

Their UT Silk Road is imo one of the worst UT designs that is still left. My suggestion, make it a civ bonus or remove it all together (as they need a buff early game more). An interesting option that I saw on a different topic is giving them access to archers from the barracks. Idea for a new UT for Italians: Cartography: +X LoS for all units

Similar to what I suggested to the Chinese. Make the bonus from Hill Forts available as a civ bonus from start. Extra attack on knights and UU for relics can be made into a UT.

Imo Malay should be one of the go to civs on water maps, like Vikings, Italians and Portugese. If that was the case, it would matter less that their winrate is kinda low, plus it matches the civ. Maybe make Thalocrassy UT into a civ bonus? Thinking of water bonuses is more difficult than thinking of land bonuses.

The Nomad UT is just not really good. The type of bonus it gives makes it more suitable to be a civ bonus. However, that gives us a free spot for a new UT. My wild suggestion is making Drill into a castle age UT, and adding a new imp UT. Maybe something like a buff for their steppe lancers. I see that this causes balance issues though.

It is difficult making the feitoria interesting on low elo and high elo at the same time. My suggestion is as following: Make the resource trickle scale with distance, like for trade routes. This distance could be towards the original TC or to a market. Somewhere else it was suggested that the feitoria could be some kind of trade with yourself building. This could complement the distance aspect. Basically it means that you can sneak a very effective feitoria on the other side of the map. Would implement a max amount of feitorias to 1 though to prevent Portugese being OP in team games.

Seeing that Saracens are still a bit underpowered in the stats, and seeing that it doesn’t have any Monk bonuses apart from a full monastery, and seeing that imo the civ is supposed to be thematically more monk based, I suggest giving them Atonement and Theocracy for free, while removing the bonus for transport ships.

Those were my suggestions. Of course there are more issues that could be addressed, f.e. Flemish revolution, but I don’t have specific ideas on these issues. Further, I would also like to add that I think the devs are doing good work on the new civs and civ balances, and that most of the civs are beautifully designed.

So now not only is the bonus deniable and have to be worked for, but it has to be reaearched too? Thats terrible.

And extra range tcs is busted for free. See what it does to magonel pushes.

Have you even had time to try out feitoria post change?

Again, they just got buffed twice over. How about letting the changes settle before proposing moee changes


Nope. That’s an iconic part of the Celts, and isn’t really that strong anyway.

Maybe. It does make sense, but I’m not sure about giving a UT three effects.

What’s wrong with Silk Road? It lets you save a ton of resources when team games transition into trade.
It’s redundant in 1v1, though, I’ll give it that.
That new UT sounds… pretty useless. Especially if it’s in Imp when most of your sight needs are provided by Outposts or Trebuchets.

These two are UTs for a reason. If they were available immediately, then they would be ridiculous. For the Lithuanians, take a bit of history: in Age of Kings, Teutonic TCs used to have +2 attack and +5 range. This made Teutons the best douche civ in the game, bar none. The Town Center just could not be reached by the enemy’s, and thus it was effortless to take it down without resistance. By moving Hill Forts to a civ bonus, this would have the same effect. Even if it was restricted to the Castle Age, I would be against it.
Thalassocracy would be in the same boat (pun not intended.) Getting early Harbours would mean Malay players can just hop on to the enemy’s island and build them all over the shore, denying them not just their water, but also the surrounding area thus locking them out of the game, effectively. Not to mention it would make their own shore impossible to breach. It’s broken.

I’ve always wanted Nomads to be overhauled. Even if it were to cause Castles, Town Centers and other population-increasing buildings to not lose population, it still would be very niche and only usable when you’re under massive attack. Drill absolutely needs to stay in Imperial, but Nomads needs a lot more.

MatCauthon has said what needs to be said about the other ideas, so I won’t repeat his words.


not to mention the douche potential. at best this should be available starting in castle age

You underestimate the power of Hill Forts! Tcs with 9 range are untouchable in early castle age and not even mangonels can attack them, that’s why it’s a castle tech. It’s a pretty good one actually, you can even make tc drops! If it was given for free, Lithuanians would be the Go To Douche civ lol

I see other people have said it, but yeah here’s another comment about it.

i struggle to see how saracens can considered underpowered even. they seem italians on steroid to me. they have better archers than some archer civ (italians for example), 150HP camel in castle age, better siege than most with almost full upgrades, SE, and new UT, great UU, and even a pretty solid naval compartment. again, italians on steroids


Not even then. Zero reason to change it.
Furthermore there is zsro reason to change the relic bonus by making it ecen worse.


it does nothing in 1 vs 1. also has the gimmicky that you have to research it before create any trade cart to get full effect. i would maybe lower the discount a bit but add a 1 vs 1 effect, like a guilds effect for your market on top of guild for better rock-bottom market prices


To be clear, my proposals are not meant to address balance issues, but to make civilizations more interesting to play.

Good point! I overlooked on that part.

Making it available from Castle age is an option. Or maling it into something like +1 range and +1 attack with each age starting in feudal age. I don’t know if the +1 range and +1 attack makes it broken for douche tactics in feudal though.

Except they tie into balance
Furthermore there is nothing fun about a uniwue tech that gben further requires investment afterwords for the real payoff.
Furthermore your justification for saracens changes was at least partially tied to balance.

Still kills magonel pushes. Its a concern even in vastle age.

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My proposal for italians is indeed weak if you gain it in imperial age. Another possibility might be:
Machiavellism: enemy town centers and castles visible OR
Renaissance: buildings cost -10%

I try to take balance info consideration, but the main Idea is to suggest changes in playstyle. When something new makes the civ broken as a consequence, this new format can be nerfed.

Plus i don’t see the problem with town centers being resistant to mangonel pushes. It gives the lithuanians a new edge without being impossible to kill. Plus they need a boost for this relic bonus being behind a UT slot now :wink:

tbf, we have plenty of such UT in the game. you mean to say they are all bad/ not fun? i agree on some extent but it really depends. for example, Silk Road requires further investment and also requires a TG situation, and that is not fun to me, but something like new Detinets from Slavs even if require further castle investments is fun imho

the reward for silk road is half price trade carts. does it require a certain investment into trade carts to pay off? yes. but usually if you are researching it, it pays off.

the reward for his new Lithuanian unique tech is “go collect relics, THEN you get a reward for each relic.” not only that but his Lithuanian UT can also be lost if a monastery with relics in it is knocked out. once you research Silk Road all your trade carts are half price. period. you cannot lose the benefits of Silk Road.

big difference there.

I do agree that silk road needs changes, mainly because its useless in 1v1.

don’t get me wrong i agree with your statement absolutely, i just wanted to point out that a UT that requires investments later is not always a bad thing, it depends on the tech of course

and yes it’s about time that silk road could use a rework or maybe even a completely new tech and the effect just lessenend to 20% and made into a civ bonus

italians are such a mess to me. no identity for their archers, no archer buff except for pavise which is just a bad tech imho (weaker then vietnamese bonus and behing a paywall), worst elitè upgrade in the game with genoese cross, no bonus vs eagles for Condos…it’s like devs forgot this civs actually exists lol

Relics are also useful without this bonus.

If you research druzhina as a tech for slavs, most likely you are already going for infantry. Same for this: if you already have a couple of relics, it is a useful UT. Whether the UT is worth getting depends on the cost, but they do get the stronger tc’s in return.

yeah. but every civ gets that bonus. the bonus lithuanians get is that it gives attack boost, so why, when such a bonus can be lost, should it be tied to a unique tech. should we make it so that other bonuses can be lost too? lose a castle and have to re research whatever unique tech applies to your civ? that doesn’t sound very fun does it?

except you can’t lose the benefits of druzhina. whatg happens if your monastery is knocked out?

no, they get a busted bonus that would be nerfed into the ground because its too strong and shuts down magonel pressures.

show me 1 civ that can lose the benefits of their unique tech.

there isn’t one. so why should Lithuanians be put in that situation?

there is no reason at all the relic bonus should be tied to a technology. furthermore this is a huge nerf to them until they can actually get a castle up, and research that tech, as if ltihuanians weren’t weak enough in early castle age as is

I see you have very strong opinions. We’re not ging to agree.

clearly not. you seem to think it’s fair to give one civ a whole bunch of downsides to their bonuses, while other civs get similar bonuses permanently with no work involved other then researching a tech. for a guy who says he wants fun techs, there is nothing fun about making the relic bonus a unique tech.

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