Dragoons arent thought to counter ERKs. You can use artillery to kill them since they havent any bonus vs art and they are next to each other, suffering from AoE damage. Treat them separately, they arent light cavalry, they are shock infantry. Less HP, less speed, more affected by AoE
2 Likes
also difficult, lol.
and artillery is too slow, also you need more guys to protect them.
I don’t understand your reasoning.
You say that generally Dragoons are too strong and Skirmishers too weak. I don’t think I agree. Skirmishers trades very well with Dragoons considering their multipliers and huge range advantage. Even Dragoon with 16 range (Portugeese Dragoon for example) will be outranged by Skirmisher type of units. Noone is complaining about it. Range is not an issue at all.
Yes, big mass of Skirmishers is vulnerable to heavy cavalry, but heavy cavalry is vulnerable to Dragoons/heavy infantry. As it suppose to be.
Dragoons are much faster than ERK so they can be in range if they want. And beside they are not supposed to counter ERK so its fine I guess.
2 Likes
some suggestions to give Chinese more choices.
1.
This card now grants double reward
2.
Give Chinese a 2 villagers card, so northern refugees could be sent when more village built.
3.
village limit +2, so this land grab card could be use to build more village and then send northern refugees to boom.
4.
Change gold to export, rather than change export to gold!
5.
set it to be a normal card, rather than a team card. So we can buff it to let village support more population. Then Chinese can try a out-law tactic.
6.
Now these two cards also increase disciple limit +5. So, Chinese can build white pagoda to play disciples tactic.
7.
Now Confucian academy can switch to train flamethrowers in age2, and hand mortar in age3.
8.
2 villages = 360 wood. It should be 3 villages!
9.
They said Boxers and villages defenses should be turned int one card, however I think that’s too OP.
Maybe it’s good to make every single village train 4 irregulars and 4 sentries.
10.
It’s a good way to let Chinse gain more XP, but not enough. Now we can gain triple XP, then Chinese can have another way to gain more XP without TP. And it’s good to build village.
11.
Chinese only have one native card in age2. We’d better have another one!
12.
Two great cards. But it’s a pity they are in age3. Move one card to age2 and nerf it.
13.
Enter Russia can also make boat cheaper and train faster.
14.
This card itself arrive quickly.
1 flying crow can’t be an age3 card. 1 flying crow+4 Arquebusiers maybe OK.
15.
send export in age4 and send rice paddy in age5.
3 Likes
I agree with you. Except for tea export, other new cards obtained by China are useless. Even PVE players are not willing to use them
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In treaty mode the Mayans are OP (even more so in empire wars), while the Aztecs are only good. So, if the Cruzob infantry is justified for the Mayans, with more reason the ERK for the Aztecs.
The Mayans have artillery and their skirmisher is strong. The Mayans don’t have cavalry, but with the three units they do have (cruzoob infantry, cruzoob avenger, and cannons) they can do more than the Aztec army can and also have an ever growing population of holcan spearmen.
The skirmishers are more effective against the Aztecs than against the Mayans. To face the Mayans you need large amounts of artillery and it is not very difficult for the Mayans to counter either. Against the Aztecs you only need skirmisher and be careful of the coyotes.
mayan army >>> aztec army
2 Likes
Who needs rice paddies at age 5?? Same happens for aztecs, a bit useless the 2 farms… at least if they could be estates
ERKs are better against skirmishers than dragons because civs that have dragons also have cannons and grenadiers, which can take out entire armies of skirmishers efficiently and from a distance. The Aztecs have nothing like that.
Also, the ERKs do not defeat skirmishers on their own. To defeat skirmishers the ERK need the “War Ceremony”, which needs 15 villagers to be at maximum. Aztecs cannot have “War Ceremony” active all the time (Aztecs don’t have “Standing Army” or “Mass Cavalry” so in treaty they need to have “Harvest Ceremony” active most of the time.). Even if the ERKs manage to defeat the skirmishers the Aztecs will lose if they just create ERKs, because ERKs cost:
food: 75
golden: 75
while skirmishers cost:
food: 50
golden: 65
The ERKs are considerably more expensive and if the Aztecs have the community plaza working at maximum it means they also have 15 less villagers working. If the Aztec player only creates ERKs you just have to create skirmishers and wait for their economy to crash.
Then, the Aztecs only have coyotes to fight skirmishers. Coyotes are a good unit, but they fight in melee. The Aztec player needs to surround their mass of coyotes around the mass of the enemy’s skirmishers in order for them to be efficient. If there are obstacles in the way such as terrain, walls or heavy infantry, the coyotes will die before completing their mission, while other civilizations can eliminate skirmishers from a distance and faster.
Skirmishers are not the only unit that counters the ERK; cannons also defeat them if the ERKs do not have the support of arrow knights. Also heavy infantry defeat them in melee. If you create a mass of halberds, samurais, Doppelsoldner, etc, it will defeat the ERKs if they reach them. you can say that: “ERKs have 6 speed, the halberdiers will never reach them”, if the ERKs run away use the heavy infantry against the buildings; the heavy infantry have a good siege and you will cause a lot of damage to their base before the halberdiers die. To stop large numbers of halberdiers or similar units the Aztecs have to create jaguars. That’s why jaguars are so good against heavy infantry.
2 Likes
ERKs beat dragons not because of their range of 16, but because ERK takes 1 population while the dragon takes 2 population. If what you are looking for is for the dragons to defeat the ERKs, the change you propose will not help you.
If the range of 16 is excessive for a dragon type unit, then nerf the “Order of Aviz” card as well.
no one needs rice paddies at age5, also don’t need it at age4. I just want tea export at age4 so I exchange them.
Coffee Mill Guns is not equivalent to a +15% attack card. It’ll scale off current stats so it’s going to actually be a ~27% attack increase plus the extra benefit of not having a vulnerable reload interval.
Same deal with this card. It’s actually a 23% attack increase. If you buffed Chinese heavy cannons and consulate artillery by that much it would be completely busted.
1 Like
I think it’s alright to keep them there as an incentive to actually build Castles. What they should do is limit the Blockhouse to Castle units so it’s not just a free full barracks.
The theory of skirmisher anti-dragoon is only effective in the frontal battlefield, and force enemy’s dragoon fight with you in 20 range. But the fact is that the dragoon can use the speed advantage to avoid fighting with the skirmisher and raid the resource area. In this case, the scattered soldiers can not play a counter-reaction effect.
The dragoon will not have much difficulty in confronting the 12-range ERK, but the 16-range ERK can conduct HR and gather fire in a small range and retreat to the cover of the soldiers trained by WP in time. In this case, the speed advantage of dragoons is difficult to have a good effect on ERK, let alone many ethnic groups without dragoons.
When the heavy cavalry faces the dragon cavalry, there will not be collapsed like skirmisher faces to the heavy cavalry (difference between 0.5 speed and 2.75 speed). Moreover, a large number of heavy cavalries can significantly enhance the combat ability, while a large number of skirmishers can only produce more fire overflow - unless you are a master of micro operation, and can control five groups of scattered soldiers to fire at a round.
You may say that too many heavy cavalries will make many of them can’t touch their aim. This is true, but the heavy cavalry is the first row of the team that is most vulnerable to loss, so even if the number of heavy cavalries is two time than the number of them can touch enemies, that’s all OK. While the skirmishers are far away from their aim, the fire distribution mechanism of this game will only let them put more fire on the same person or several guys, which leads to the problem that too many skirmishers will not improve the combat effectiveness of the troops too much.
As for the dragoon, although they are also ranged attacks, their range is closer, and they often faced to heavy cavalry which will approach actively, so their fire overflow problem is smaller than that of the skirmishers.
The treaty experts I know all believe that the Maya are not strong in the treaty model. Light cannons are difficult to work in front of culverin, which leads to the fact that Cruzoob infantry is easy to be destroyed by Anti-infantry gun.
The Maya and Aztecs have nothing in common. Your idea is a little far-fetched. I don’t know about Aztec in the treaty model, but this nation did not have a place in the treaty model even at its strongest time. So if you want Aztec to become stronger in the treaty model, you should let them have more mechanisms rather than a strong ERK.
The Maya are really strong in the team competition, but it also requires a huge costs. If your opponent has spent so much to create the Maya and your team can’t gained an overwhelming advantage, maybe you should look for problems in cooperation and rank rather than civ strength.
This Portuguese card is in age 4 and needs many resources to upgrade the dragoon. In addition, the 2 pop of the Dragoon also make him not so strong at this time.
However, ERK 16 range cards are in the era of fortresses, just need 500+150 resource to buy. And Aztec is very easy to use WP to quickly send out a large number of cards to support this card.
ERK’s cost performance is not high in the early age 3, but at this time, Aztec has a group of powerful WP and unlimited Warriors to help defend. This is why ERK needs to weaken the late game.
Why don’t I suggested to weaken the early WP and Warriors? Because Aztecs can’t play without them.
1 Like
Nha, yo creo que si alteran el balance de China en lo más mínimo, y se convierte en una máquina de destrucción masiva, casi siempre que se le dio buff a China, está se terminó rompiendo. China no necesita ningún rework o buff en estos momentos.
1 Like
So what the Aztecs need is a rework; that the nerf to the ERK is done together with the rework. You shouldn’t nerf the most important military unit of a non-OP civilization and leave it one or more seasons with nothing to compensate.
2 Likes
So move the “Temple of Tlaloc Support” card to age 4. I can understand that at age 3 the range of 16 might be a problem (which it isn’t; skirmishers can solve the problem). But it shouldn’t be a problem in the late game.
If late game the Aztecs are fine at best, how come ERKs need to be nerfed late game?