I haven’t read all the posts but … what else are you supposed to do against Eagles as Ethiopians? Faster firing archers doesn’t help, because their damage is still pitiful vs Eagles. Good luck using siege too, eagles are pretty fast, so unless you have very solid attack ground micro, forget it. (I dont even want to mention cavalry, because Ethiopian cavalry is just garbage)
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They actually do 1 less damage to eagles than champions. And are 10 gold more expensive, have 20 less hp and 1 less melee armor so they die quicker than champs the only thing they have over the champs is speed and fast creation and you need a castle for that, in a shotel arbs vs eagle arbs i would put my money on the eagles as they can still somewhat tank the melee damage whereas shotels will just melt to even generic arbs. They kill eagles in 3 hits, mayan ones in 5 same as champion. Removing the bonus damage entirely means they kill them in 4 and mayans ones in 6.
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One of Eagle Units peculiarity and why they are good along with Mayans Plums, is their speed. Champions deal so much to them because they are slow so, when and if they meet them, they need to deal damage because the other unit can escape just as easily. It is like Pike vs Knights. Pike is very good at it but has huge disadvantage because of speed. Shotels don’t have this problem. They easily reach them and kill them.
The cost of both units, champ and shotel, is total 80 resources.
There speed is met with the disadvantage of getting completely melted by archers and towers and they’re more expensive and they need castles. You can get eagles out long before he has shotels. They perform worse in pure melee than champs and they cost more. The only advantage is speed and it’s only relevant if your opponent is making only eagles and nothing else
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Statement not true given militia line is also melted by archer line. Even more because of their slow speed.
Same resource cost. Gold is valued more but we can compare castle age shotel that still melts eagle to longsword, basically an useless unit. Also why are you continuing to compare only elite shotels to Champions like there doesn’t exists other units in between. Longsword deals 15 to eagles, normal shotel warrior deals 18 in castle age, has more speed and melts buildings, and true dies to archer faster but because of its speed and high base damage, it can reach them and kill crossbows way better than longswords that… just die.
What is the point of that sentence? Yeah you can get eagles before but they become useless given the speed advantage is nullified against shotel. Continue to ignore my comparison of pikes and knights.
No they don’t perform worse in melee given they have 16 base attack, not elite and longsword have 9, they have almost double.
Man you are dismissing speed as nothing, even if we ignore everything you wrote, even if it is wrong.
Speed, raw DPS and training time. Shotels actually train insanely fast. At a speed, the indirect cost of the castle is actually comparable to other regular units trained from baracks or stables.
That makes shotels good noob-bashers as not experienced players just don’t expect a fllood of high hitting uus in early castle age. It’s just not happening usually.
well in castle age shotels have 0 pierce armor and 20 less hp so they die in 8 hits from crossbows whereas longswords die in 15 so they die twice as fast while costing 15 resources more overall (longsowrds with supplies 65, shotels 80) and need a castle to produce which you keep ignoring. 18 * 3 = 54 So eagles barely survive with 1 hp so shotels need an extra hits to kill an eagle so 4 the same as longswords and if you get a castle up then it’s reasonable to expect your opponent can afford one as well so if he pushes you with a castle shotels will melt whereas longswords can survive under castle fire much longer in comparison especially considering they’re cheaper and easier to produce so you will have more of them furthermore the shotels low hp and armor means they die faster to eagles. Shotels die in 6 hits, longswords in 9 so 50% longer while costing 15 resources less after supplies not the same resources cost as you claim. So they die twice as fast in castle age to everything are more expensive need a castle first and still kill eagles in the same number of hits. The only advantage is they’re speed which is very significant against eagles but it is very well compensated with all the weaknesses they have compared to longswords
noobs not knowing how to deal with the unit does not mean the unit is op. And castles cost 650 stone. in castle age you can probably reliably drop one castle so one castle even with shotels short creation time can still be easily outproduced by baracks and they cost more resources overall.
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Never said that. Actually stats show that it’s also not a “good” noob basher strat. Ethiopians don’t seem to be better at lower elos. I just wanted to share the information, that I can somehow understand when unexperienced players get surprised and overwhealmed by a strat like this.
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Lets ignore upgrades on shotels but apply barrack upgrades on longswords?
Lets ignore nobody is making shotel - longsword comparison trying to claim shotel are better in everyway than longsword.
Lets ignore shotel speed.
Lets not read the thread title.
Man, wtf are you trying to discuss? Shotel vs archers? Shotel vs longsword? Shotel vs castles? Or, as the title says, Shotel vs Eagles?
Longsword is a direct counter to Eagles, this is stated, and it needs 4 attacks with all upgrades to kill it while having no way to chase them. Shotel needs 3 with all upgrades while it chases and kills. And nowhere it states Shotel counters Eagles. The +2 bonus were just devs being lazy when releasing the meso civs and assigning every infantry unit with this bonus so eagles could be fair without balancing properly.
again, if shotels are so good vs meso civs room, why are ethiopians terrible vs meso civs?
furthermore
except shotels didn’t exist before meso civs, so this is bad comparison.
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let’s ignore shotels dying twice as fast to everything.
lets ignore them costing 15 more resources.
lets ignore that you need a castle for shotels as well.
they use the same upgrades and in castle age the only advantage in terms of upgrades is the man at arms and longsword upgrades but lets ignore that you need a castle for shotels as well.
wrong they take the same number of hits as longswords
the title says shotels vs meso civs and all meso civs have good archers so i think it’s pretty relevant
also this is false.
castle age shotels have 16 base attack +2 from blacksmith upgrades + 2 from bonus damage to eagles.
castle age eagles have 0 base melee armor + 2 from upgrades.
this means that a shotel will do 16+2+2-0-2 for a total of 18 damage.
eagles have 55 health. 55/18 = 3.055 hits to kill. that means 4 hits to kill them.
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let’s don’t forget if you make an all-in like this you usually don’t get the upgrades.
You want to surprise the opponent and don’t think for the long run. building blacksmith and getting upgrades is just not helping in that scenario, it would just delay the surprise factor.
if the enemy has enough military to deal with it you lose anyways also with the bs upgrades but without the upgrades you give him less time to set up a defense if you surprise him successfully.
Two words: massed archers. Bye bye Shotel Warriors.
No. Leave them alone. They are cool and perfectly balanced units. They are less tanky when compared to even champions due to their lack of HP. They do lots of damage sure, but less tanky stats off-set that.
Eagle Warriors are raider units. They should not be used against melee specialists such as Shotel Warriors, or something like a Teutonic knight and be expected to win.
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Just wait until OP gets to fight the new and improved Malay Karambits.
Eagles literally don’t stand a chance.
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