Because requiring for nerfing Japan posts has more than requiring for nerfing Sweden so I don’t capture more about Japan. (may be people are tired to say that anymore).
After I review these posts, I found that:
Japan protectors were protecting Japan even they don’t know Japan player will use heroes card because it is OP with double treasure resource; Posted TAD old figure and say Japan are UP; Used their rank to “show” they should be the balance reference, etc.
Yes, both are SUPER BROKEN OP.
Caroleans need their speed nerfed to 4.0 IMMEDIATELY, the fact they are almost as quick as Ashigarus AND get a special charge ability is broken!!!
It’s almost impossible to catch caroleans (and ashis) out of position with infantry because they’re so much faster, and they counter cav so it’s not so easy to snare.
If their speed was nerfed and maybe torp HP brought down too I think they still would be in a balanced(ish?) spot
I just played a game 23 minute game against a Sweden player (we were both 1450 elo) as Spain where I absolutely crushed him with a rush, killed at least 15 vills, defeated his army over and over again with a giant mass of unction xbow+musk, destroyed like 5 torps, his TP, and 4 military buildings, had a massive score lead the whole time, and somehow he aged and manifested 40+ caroleans and 2 falcs which killed my army of age2 units unction units.
It was the classic cockroach style where I couldn’t kill every torp at once then he beat me.
I’m frustrated.
I’d like to argue that shrines and torps are not op:
Dutch have banks.
They can be destroyed by pikeman.
Japanese and Swedish players still need to send villagers on resources.
Japanese and Swedish players should build their shrines/torps in the middle of the map, which is a very dangerous move.
If you think shrine is op, you need to know torp is more op, so shrine is not op. If you think torp is op, you need to know shrine is more op, so torp is not op. As a conclusion, neither is op.
Similarly, ashigaru and caroleans are not op because:
Many other civs have musketeers.
They are still countered by skirmishers and artillery.
Japanese and Swedish players still need to build other units.
Japanese and Swedish players may use ashigaru/carloeans for raiding, which is a very dangerous move.
If you think ashigaru is op, you need to know carolean is more op, so ashigaru is not op. If you think carolean is op, you need to know ashigaru is more op, so carolean is not op. As a conclusion, neither is op.
Also, there is one perfect strategy that immediately wrecks any Japanese/Swedish player but only Japanese/Swedish players know that strategy well.
Another issue on sidelines: This is the reality of the game, while the changes are always centric according to 1v1 and top players and top of ladder!
The majority of players are 2v2, 3v3 mid tier, and if these audience are not catered well enough, they are in terms of expected to accept the changes done for 1v1 or Treaty and live with it, there is no attempt to address this
Dutch banks don’t provide population so they need to build extra houses, that can make them easier to defend because of more buildings.
Even pikeman is the most trash unit in the game still able to destroy shrines and torps, I can’t see why these houses are OP.
3~5. I don’t have any stronger idea for these.
I don’t care their special bonuses and how good their eco can cover, I only know they are just a bit more expensive.
As long as they are not countering all units, they are impossible to be OP.
Same as second point, no matter ashi or carolean also get weakness, so this is impossible to be OP too, I supposed they can counter also skirm and artillery.
They will get shot and killed by TC when raiding, this is too UP, I never did that.
I have tried my best to reply.
I am really respect the guys keep speaking fallacy just don’t want their civs to get nerfed, even most people are considering they are OP (from previous poll) and many figures are shown.
Two more famous comments to be added:
If you think Japan has the safest eco that can’t be raid, you can also build mill at the beginning to prevent raided.
If you are “xxxhole” enough, you can kill all the herds in the map at the beginning to block shrines to gen any resources.
I think what’s the next thing that players would rant about aoe3 if Shrines/Kanchas/Torps never existed…
Why Ottomans are allowed with free auto queue settlers, or Russians training batches by three, or British manor houses giving free settler per each one?
I mean go add those mechanics to AOE 1 or 2, even AOM, and you get endless rants about how it violates RTS rules XD
That’s why I create this post and these are what Japan and Sweden players complain each other.
In the poll both of these two civs are having the highest OP rated.
What we said were too much but situation are remaining same, here is the truth.
This poll was done on last year Dec, but Japan and British didn’t change any for team game.
Until now Japan players are still complaining Torps and Manors but even Sweden still got 0.01 rating less than Japan before torps getting nerfed.
The ultimate evidence of poor game balance is when the majority of people you match with online are using Japan or Sweden. This would only happen if they were OP. You NEVER see too many players using UP/average civs, I have never seen that in all my experience with AOE games. If you watch ESOC commented AOE3 games, even the commentators admit Japan and Sweden are SEVERELY unbalanced, they joke about it but some commentators actually hate it too. It is incredible that in the face of all of this obvious evidence of poor game balance the developers do not patch the civs. Devs, you yourselves admitted openly that you make new civs OP on purpose so people will play them. This happened with Japan with Asian Dynasties, and it happened with Sweden and Incas.
YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO PATCH THE CIVS AFTER YOU RELEASE THEM AS OP TO GENERATE PLAYER INTEREST IN THE GAME. If you leave them OP as they were designed to be, it ruins the fun of the game long term, as you can see by reading this thread and watching commented AOE3 games. When I watch a tournament game, I know the Japan or Sweden player will likely win. I lose respect for the players that choose them, yet I see why they choose them, because they want to advance in the tournament. So it ruins tournaments too. Also, I can never play Japan, Sweden or Inca either, because I want to have a fair game.
