We all know the Steppe Lancer is generally a stronger light cav unit that’s generally not worth the gold cost or building in general. however taking a look at the Kamayuk which is similar in usage it doesn’t get nearly as much hits in on a normal usage basis (stuffing into a single tile aside)
Regarding Tatars, they lack a melee unit to counter pikes and the like, and their sword-line acts like they’re being hit from Jaguar Warriors from just hun pikes. to bring the stepplancer to more of a power to counteract their counter in light numbered situations (like kamayuks when surrounded by small numbers vs large numbers of jaguar warriors, whether or not they can counter is dependant on their numbers advantage) to buff the Tatars from afar while increasing the staying power of steppe lancers I suggest increasing their lance range from 1 to 1.5 or 2 range - this will bring their hitcount up to or near the Kamayuks’ ability. The range can be finetuned. This will also soft counter pikes in small numbers.
and will work as a soft wall against pikes when defending cav archers and/or monks when faced with low numbered or spread out groups of pikes.
Yes, I know siege would help, as well as mass cav archers, but as far as any sort of melee counter to the trash units, Tatars are lacking a bit too much. they lack both the second and third infantry melee armor upgrade and only have up to two handed swordsman- all in all much worse than even goths have going for them as far as quality.
- Ideas added from conversations below:
regarding unit stacking on the open battle field via patrol:
Limit the minimum distance of points of patrol can be used to and from (regardless of original point of patrol and the formation’s original position so units won’t casually stack)
instead of walking back into the formation the formation turns into a U-turn around the flag-point.
Bunching up manually against solid objects/within small enclosures being the exception. Choke-points are a good part of the game - but not on the open battlefield.
This will fix unit stacking for all players on the open battlefield and all units including archers.
+1 Pierce armor for standard and/or elite Steppe Lancers
If/when range is adjusted to a good level- adjust Steppe Lancer dmg to a balanced level
Decrease cost to 65 food and 35 gold
The Steppe lancer might still need help. Just a bit.
The Tatars do not
/thread
2 Likes
The Tatars have good defensive structure and a decent bonus - they are lacking in how to counter trashpikes much less fully upgraded trashpikes.
As of current it’s better to just build Keshiks and send them to their doom against a line of pikes - at least the gold cost is slightly returned.
(Regarding proper usage of Keshiks, use against trash units other than pikes and heal often.)
yay another thread about steppe lancers.
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Keshiks are good, but you vastly underestimate the Tatar + Hill composition.
The Tatars are not weak. They do not need a buff. They don’t need a direct counter to pikes when their main composition unit happens to be one of the best HCA’s in the game. That’s like saying the Celts need FU hussar to handle archers. Your premise makes no sense.
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Celts have siege enough to counter archers without their speed bonus. Tatars Cav Archers are strong, sure - but they will not counter mass pikes+siege/skirms - and we’re not buffing the cav archers we’re buffing the steppe lancer as a soft tatar buff while making the unit have a more dignified use rather than a far fetched one at best. As is Tatars are steam rolled by trash compositions. - it would be enough to make the Steppe line useful than to buff them anywhere else which could result in an overbuff while buffing the steppe line is a soft buff yet gives the tatars a semi counter to their worst enemy.
Atm 40 gold for a ‘scout cav’ is too much to consider the unit useful.
Steppe lancers only need a cost reduction nothing more, 65f and 35g will be enough
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If the cost was 65 food 20 gold I’d still consider the unit to be without a good use and a waste of good food and gold.
The +1 range is really good, and with cheaper cost and ez to mass they will be a strong death ball, and they need a cost reduction for the elite upgrade.
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Their +1 range is far from being as useful as the Kamayuk’s. Their hitboxes keep them from getting close enough unless one abuses the patrol option which is not something to balance around. Even kamayuks and siege balls can do that. To increase the range would be enough to make the current costs worth the option of using the unit.
+2 range is too much, maybe +1Pa will be enough, but I still the best thing is just the cost reduction or I suggest to introduce a Stable tech for steppe civs that make their steppe lancers cost no gold.
No gold steppelancers would be a civ only feature and wouldn’t fix the steppe lancers’ core problem. I imagine you’d be adding the gold cost to the food cost - which would work to a degree, 100+ food for a single unit tho - kinda harsh. Sure it might help but it wouldn’t fix their problem.
Having 2 range is an option - 1.5 range would probably be better - it’s something to be tweaked to find the perfect range for the unit to make their hit count resemble the Kamayuks’.
We are not aiming for 3 range here.
You know that the possibility to stack them like archers made them broken so they needed to be hotfixed?
The thing is, it’s just no unit for people who don’t know how to stack them, it’s that simple.
At least the way they are designed right now.
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Limiting the minimum distance of points of patrol can be used to and from (regardless of original point of patrol so units won’t casually stack) would be enough to fix this feature.
This actually wouldn’t solve it.
It would just make it a bit harder to execute.
For the most part of ease of use it would.
As for pressing stop as the formation reaches its turning point - sure it might not fix that part - but it would make it harder for the formation to suddenly bunch up without timing the press.
There are further adjustments to patrol that can be made to reduce packing like sardines with the press of a button- for instance- instead of walking back into the formation the formation turns into a U-turn around the flag-point.
But the thing is, if… We need a solution which is balanced among all elos.
There can’t be a manouver which only .1 % of all players can execute, but is broken among this .1 % of players.
That’s why I think the steppe lancer can only be balanced in a niche or utility/support role.
This would fix that issue for all players on the open battlefield and all units including archers.
Bunching up manually against solid objects/within small enclosures being the exception. Choke-points are a good part of the game - but not on the open battlefield.
And you know what also works like a “solid object” ? enemy army ;).
Could people maybe append there own ideas to existing threads?
There is no need to create a new thread about the Steppe lancers each day…
https://forums.ageofempires.com/search?q=Steppe%20Lancer%20category:101%20in:title%20order:latest
You dont even need to use the search function, there are plenty posts in the latest …