Someone might have mentioned it… but the Teut Pal is so broken that if it gets the first hit on a Boyar it beats it… And it beats the boyar at literally almost everything else due to higher hp, trains a whack ton faster (due to spamming of stables) and doesnt need a castle, and the cherry on top? It’s cheaper than a Boyar… how broken is that?
Is there any other UU that is worse at everything than another race’s anything at all? example: is there a unit that is better than the huskarl at everything else? no i dont think so… a UU should at least beat the teut paladin at something, even if its at beating that same paladin, but even there the boyar will fail 50% of the time(technically higher due to the cost, and production)
It’s teutons month now. Before that we got goth age and steppe lancer mania, and Khmer atomic boom. I wonder what comes next. Really hoping for some broken Portuguese buff (organ gun orgy?) eventually.
the Boyar does move faster and have more armor then the Teuton Paladin, the only reason it loses is less health.
but remember that to get Teuton Paladins you’re investing literally 1600 food and 1050 gold into upgrades, and 4 and a half minutes of research time to boot.
compare that to Elite Boyar which costs 1k food and 600 gold and 1 minute.
that said, i wouldn’t be surprised if in 3 weeks (Give or take) the Teutons receive a small nerf.
@MatCauthon3 is right, boyards are faster. It is actually what distinguishes a generic paladin from the teuton paladin.
Boyards are in general stronger than the knight line in direct fight, however teuton paladin is a special unit.
In the last patch boyards were actually penalized, despite the extra PA, since I basically say that they are outclassed in every scenario by Letis (maybe boyards are better vs ranged infantry?)
Still you can see the boyard as the strongest cavalry option that slavs get.
Maybe, but they are still behind top picks. Moreover everyone is talking about teuton paladin as if it were used in feudal. Paladins are basically a TG option. In TGs maps are larger, you have to support your allies, so missing husbandry is more important.
i mean they see plenty of 1v1 use, it just takes a crap ton of time, resources, and more time, and did i mention time, or how about the resource investment, to get to them?
Good point. In 1v1 I would pick hussars+Cavaliers over scouts+Paladins. You spend all your gold in Paladins and your opponent can waste all just spamming halabs. Even with pros Paladins are very rare in 1v1.
In TGs teuton paladin is above average (with Franks and Lithuanians). But I want to point out that husbandry matters a lot in big maps, typical of TGs.
This is literally the only reason they lose to Teuton Paladins.
Of course Slavs have the better Eco so i don’t know who would actually win if you put them in a Slavs go Boyar and Teutons go Paladins war.
Palas come out of stables tho, so Teutons would be advantaged in such a late-game spam situation. Now that I think of it, buffing Teuton cav without buffing the boyar as they did would have been totally unfair.
Oh i completely agree, i’m just saying its expensive as heck to get too and time consuming, so you’re going to see Elite Boyar much sooner then you see Paladin. especially considering Slavs have the better Economy of the two.
Even with all the buffs the teuton win rates are pretty average. Last month the overall win rate was around 50%, this month (first few days) it’s at 49.22%.
If you take 1250-1650 elo range its 47% winrate
If you take the 1650+ elo range (small number of games) its currently at 52,4% winrate.
I would give it some time before I would nerf the civ. If there are signs that it would repeatedly stay at 52+% there is a reason to nerf.
now look at winrate of last patch at 1650+. 58.76%.
You don’t balance a game around “Everyone” because either
it drastically limits your very skilled players options (Like we used to have, where every game was 4 civs, mongols, mayans, huns, and aztecs), or
you balance around people who don’t micro, and then your very skilled players break the game. for example, can you imagine the damage archers would do if you had to balance there contribution around people who don’t micro much? now turn around and give them to Yo, Hera, or Lieerry
You should also avoid to balance around every map. Otherwise Indian fishermen would be OP if there is a lot of shore fish. Or mongol hunters in land madness. Or cumans would be op in games where you are limited to feudal. Feitoria is OP in 500+ pop ffa games. Should Portuguese deserve to be nerfed for this? Clearly no
Overall, my guess is that the reference is 1v1 Arabia, since it includes several scenarios of the most common maps. Teutons were a bit weak before the armor buff. Now they are above average, but I would be curious to see their picking rate in the future for competitive games. In noob games, this picking rate will be biased by the fact that teutons are a fan favorite civ and that currently people want to try their new buff.
agreed completely. i’m fine with some maps favoring others. arena tends to favor civs that like to boom.
arabia favors aggression, Wolf Hill Favors Lithuanians because you ain’t denying their relic bonus short of utter domination.
they objectively were. and have been for ages.
agreed, right now they are on my “monitor closely and be ready” radar.
You forget the insane farming rate from Slavs. Giving them such a strong unit thats very close to Paladin with such a eco bonus is reeaaally dangerous.
You cant just compare 2 units without taking the backround into account. And before someone mentions the Teuton farm bonus, yes its there but not close as strong as Slav farming.
that is true, similar to the elephant issue. although maybe not as extreme change as the EBE with 1v1 vs TGs… if the teut is offensive though, that 0.08 speed really doesnt make a difference…
sorry… you’re forgetting the gold price and production rates, which will allow the teuton to overwhelm the opponent, nevermind pre-mass… and as others have pointed out, its worse in team games
my issue is actually the teut paladin is too strong, im ok with the boyar (even if i wish it had more hp to tank archer shots better