Teutons are NOT underpowered

[Jackbrick]

Those are very costly units. And are not cost-effective, and take ages to tech into it. You would need to set up a strong trade income in order to get all these awesome techs. Meanwhile, your cheap skirmishers are garbage.

[GermanAttorney8]

If you do it correctly for Cumans you should have same amount of vills as Malay in castle age, so they are pretty similar.

Huns are good in relic war but ya probably not greatest in Arena.
Also adding to list: Chinese, Vietnamese, Burmese and probably Bohemains?

[MatCauthon3]

Nah. They are a solid middle of the road civ. No reason to nerf them.

Most their bonuses are very situational and the civ has clear drawbacks.

The winrates show them to be balanced as well and tournament usage is hit or miss

[Geojak92]

I tend to slowly agree on that point. Maybe I was wrong.

used to be a hardcore critiser of the buffs, but winrates and tournament result seem fine?

I still beleieb conversion resistance knights with extra armor and cheaper farms is a bit much thought, which is how teutons performances in tournaments. So nerfing that might ruin the civ…

Teutons are the best civ in battle royal thought. Really op imo… Not that it matters.

[TestedSlinky13]

Totaly balanced civ.

[Martinurello]

@Green4uu

Knights extra melee armor means that even though they lack Bloodlines, they ARE better in some circumstances than generic Knights and in some circumstances you want Teutons Knights.

They don`t lack of bloodlines

[FurtherLime7936]

Teutons are totally fine, with clear strenghts and weaknesses

@Geojak92

The +2 armor on both all cav and all infstry plus buffing the farm discount plus there already existing bonuses was a bit too much

Is just matter of time to see that you obviously struggle to play against Teutons and don’t know how to play vs them same story triggering about Boyar buff, Leitis, Konnik, Elephants…in almost most other of your posts is basically repeating that.
maybe are you in a situation of “Git Gud”?

@Mercy9545

Yeah, it would be better for Teutons to get +1 melee armor starting in Castle Age, but not an additional melee armor in Imperial Age.

Mmm what about, instead of nerfing a civ that’s far from being even a problem, go ahead and nerf ones that truly need nerf (Franks, Mayans…)

@Green4uu

I’ve seen more than I’d like, and I basically see 0 people advocating for Goths or Spanish buffs,

Goths are hard to balance lol, as for Spanish I proposed 50% more food on Berry Bushes, good eco bonus that doesn’t make them much stronger on Arena or BF.

[Nheltarion]

@Green4uu

Yes the civ “dies to cav archer” (which I don’t believe is necessarily true, you just need to play super defensive, with tons of Castles, TCs and Skirms)

They die to cav archers on arabia unless you don’t have a siege fwd to support your cavalry castle age play. That’s something every 2k+ can tell you

[Davyman3583]

@GermanAttorney8

I don’t really think they are top 3-4 Arena tbh, Britions Burgundians Malay Cumans Huns etc both are better than Teutons.

Whose exactly top 3 arena civs depends on who you ask. Teutons is without a doubt a candidate for that though. Not sure how you came up with Huns they might even be the single worst arena civ and they completely die late game vs teutons. Same for cumans although with that tc in feudal it’s certainly better than huns here. But as teutons you don’t mind going vs cumans feudal boom as you have great eco booming yourself and you’ll only be a couple vils behind with good fc build.

@GermanAttorney8

Chinese, Vietnamese, Burmese

All of these also die hard to teutons on arena.

[MatCauthon3]

@Davyman3583

Not sure how you came up with Huns they might even be the single worst arena civ and they completely die late game vs teutons

Tatars would give huns a run for their money.

[HealFortress]

They don’t need to be nerfed, and they don’t need to be buffed much if in any way.

The most I’d advocate for is for them to be restructured:

Stable and Barracks armor bonus reduced to a total of +1 starting in castle age/ or for the full +2 bonus to be given only to the barracks.

Teutons given The first scout upgrade

Imperial age unique tech effects town centers

[MatCauthon3]

That’s a nerf for a useless buff just so you can have even more of your defensive fortress toy. No thanks.

[HealFortress]

Then place the +range in castle age,

[WrathofInnos]

Do you have stats on these? Teutons don’t have a great answer to Arambai, and they do seem to struggle against civs with high mobility and pierce damage. That being said, Cav Archer civs do seem weaker on arena than open maps, and Tatars can’t even use their hill bonus on arena. I’d be interested to see Teutons worst matchups specifically within this map.

[MatCauthon3]

We already discussed this. If it’s free and before castles it shuts down siege pushes and broken.
If it’s after a castle it’s useless.

[MatCauthon3]

I mean we literally just watched viper beat a cav archer civ. But it definitely takes a lot of work

[HealFortress]

Switching the positions of the imperial and castle age unique techs would be the way to do it.

[MatCauthon3]

Useless change. If it’s after a castle siege is already shutdown and you’re basically stealing what lithuanians get. Also. 13 range castles in castle age? Come on man.

[WrathofInnos]

I think I remember that one. He went full offensive into their base with Pikes and Knights, right? Smart strat, forcing fights with the more mobile units by threatening eco. Also probably works better at that point in the game, before CA are massed and Parthian Tactics let’s them melt Halberdiers.

[MatCauthon3]

It was against berbers. No parth tactics. Last game of redbull 5 against the kid. Feel free to go watch