They have been dominating for a long time now.
Aoe stats shows it. Viper loves playing them in tourtnrnts for years now, so does Hera.
My proposal.
Turn the cheaper farm bonus back to it’s aoc original 33%. It was buffed in de to 40%, but teutons received soo many other buffs with the armor new bonus, infstry general buffs, unique unit buffs, recent scorpion buffs.
This civ needs a tiny little nerf and we should not continue to ignore it as we have for 2 years
Agree 100%.
I also thinks their TB is just too strong. 2/3rd of an Imperial Age tech free for all ally is too powerful.
Um, their team bonus is conversion resistance…
I know.
20 characters.
Oh, I misread it. My bad.
How is that then the reason why they need a nerf? Teutons on open maps struggle vs Cavalry Archers civ, even Hera said Mongols vs Teutons played correctly isn’t even a fun fight, on closed maps they are better but they still compete with Malay, Bohemians, Portuguese, Poles, Turks, and even Vietnamese, on water maps they are trash, on TGs they are just OK.
They don’t need a nerf or a buff.
Agree! Teutons have solid game and are in a nice spot now. They have obvious weakness in late game. But Crenelations and iron clad makeup for it. I would not change them much.
I think Leitis and CA counter them hard. Teutons are only strong against cavalry civs
Teutons are totally fine. They are a top 5 civ, but they don’t have insane win rates. They aren’t broken, they are just strong. We don’t have to nerf a civ just because they are strong imo.
I would switch the TB and transform it as an individual bonus and give them something else, that’s all.
Hera never picked Teutons except for this TCI. Now before you say oh but thats also a tournament, yes, but it involves exhaustive drafting meaning all the 43 civs except one MUST be picked.
Teutons is viper’s 11th least picked civ across all tournaments which means he prefers 30 other civs more than Teutons. 2nd least picked civ for Hera, 7th for Liereyy, 5th for Tatoh, 8th for Mr.Yo. Not a single high level player for whom its a top-20 most picked civ. Overall its the 5th least picked civ across all tournaments. The tournaments where Teutons was drafted the most were Resurgence and Return of the reverse pick, where players picked their opponent civs. All that shows is every top-50 player wants to give Teutons to their opponent before they get that from the opponent. Shows how abysmal the civ must be.
Terrible proposal, totally not needed. They’re not even a top-20 most picked civ in ladder across mid and higher elos on any patch. The winrate illusion from aoestats arises from the huge pick rate and cavalry play of Franks, Malians, Gurjaras and Lithuanians in ladder (they have 61, 62, 55, 55 winrates against those civs respectively). If Teutons were indeed a “broken” or “op” civ, mid and higher elo players would have picked them a lot and shot their pick rates to top-5. Teutons is a below average civ, very difficult to play unless you’re very good with off-meta strategies like tower rushes.
Teutons one of the weakest civs on top level. They have only 2 bonus in practice : tb and armor bonus. Unique techs and garrison bonus are nearly useless, farm bonus hits too late. No husbandy, no scout cavalry. Useless uu.
This one definitely isn’t true. The farm bonus is an amazing eco bonus throughout the game. Saves a fair bit of wood early on. By the time you reach Castle Age, it’s probably saved about 400 wood already, and that only continues to grow.
Aoepulse and aoestats disagree, unless maybe you’re only talking about the top 20ish players or so?
Its a great bonus but it isn’t a dark age bonus unlike what most other civs have.
Yes but it does start after 11 mins, nothing until then. And the main benefit is somewhere mid feudal age where you can pull more villagers off wood and build farms compared to other civs.
Again would be an amazing bonus for a civ without any tech tree weaknesses. And 400 is a lot when you compare it with some civ that gets almost no eco benefit till castle age but plenty of good civs get around this much resources when they hit castle age. Chinese, Malians, Portugese, Franks, meso civs, Gurjaras, Khmer, Ethiopians, Vietnamese and a few more get resource benefits close to that. But they all have better upgraded units for castle age. Teutons on the other hand get mediocre ranged units, cavalry lack husbandry so the melee armor can help only if you can force fights and no light cav available. Its still a very good civ for maps where mobility isn’t a big factor and an amazing civ for tower rushes and monk siege push. But there’s absolutely nothing to justify a nerf.
Tournament stats agree S, A and B tiers. And when ranked data is quite small, like that of aoestats 1900+ 1v1, the stats are going to be based heavily on the civs that were popular in the recent patch. So it could quite possibly mean that Teutons are doing good against some of the frequently picked civs of the live patch like Romans, Franks.
I’d consider waiting for some more time before generalizing small data that way.
I think Teutons are a civ, whose performance is very dependant on who they’re up against.
They are very good against everyone without strong ranged options, but bad vs. Archer/CavArcher civs.
They are more of a specialist civ, whereas others are more generalists, but I wouldn’t say they’re OP, they just have more glaring favorable matchups than others.
But the most picked civs are cav civs, so it make sense their strong cav and infantry would dominate. They are weak to archer civs but those civs are picked less often.
Is there a site to only Check for Tournament Games?
Generally i agreed to not make conclusions with small sample sizes, but in the ladder they were far away from being one of the worst on top level, on aoepulse you can choose between different Patches.
May there is some misunderstanding what i /@ElectricEye was talking about. With top level i understand Top1% (1900elo+) not only pro Players, and my disagreement was with the Statement that they’re one of the worst at that Level.
Same is true for the claim that they’re on of the worst then.
Yes, unfortunately I can’t post the link here. It will only appear as ##### but its the same one Pinch3Terneira uses here to tweet TCI civ stats. (hoping this doesn’t get #ed out)
Pinch3Terneira on X: “TCI civ usage and win statistics. Sad for biz… What are your toughts @Hera_Aoe ? https://t.co/TaMcBr1Zp9” / X (twitter.com)
Their pick percentage is much lower than popular civs. So its possible that someone is having a niche build similar to celt hoang rush and artificially impacting their stats. Either with towers or monk mangonels. Its also quite possible that they do well against the current or last few patches’ most popular civs at top level. If you check the winrate or rank by patch, its not consistently at the top, its been hovering around. I do agree that its not one of the worst civs but definitely not something that needs a nerf. Quite decent, usable, definitely not overpowered.
Sure.
Can you somehow proof they are OP using their statistics?