The 1v1 ranked ladder will be full of Mongol abusers in Season7

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
1

Now that Ottoman will be nerfed, one of their 2-3 bad matchups will be of the past.
Not to mention, that Otto have a massive pickrate right now.
So the chance to be matched against something, that Mongol doesn’t DEMOLISH with a cheap tower rush, will be extremely slim.

Devs, I beg you, nerf Mongol in this coming patch.
The 80->70 darkage stone rate won’t do the deal.
Mongol will freaking dominate.
How many years has it been, that they brought terror on the ladder with dark age spear/tower rush into silver tree trade?
This nonsense has to stop.

1 Like
2

I think they already got nerfed.

The nerf to trade and the actual nerf to ovoo. They are in a good state right now, but not OP.

4 Likes
3

Even if their win rates will be reasonable, which is very unlikely as they already have positive win rates against almost every civ and 9 matchups with above 54% in Conqueror, the tower rush itself is an incredibly frustrating and anti-fun thing that goes against the design of the game based on the unit counter system and the focus on the strategic decision making.

It is something that replaces the dynamics of unit counter system and tech transitions with fighting against defensive buildings in your own base.
It is something that is guaranteed to be successful unless Mongols player makes a big mistake, and there is no counter to that, only ways to prevent the additional towers which is also not always going to work depending on the map spawn.

Tower rush being the optimal Mongols opening is syphoning all enjoyment of the game for me when playing both with and against them.

1 Like
4

Whats the best way to stop the hit and run arrow horses they have?

5

Make a unfinished wall segment in your gold pit. You will avoid Mongol to put a tower and when you get to age 2 and you don’t need anymore the wall you can cancel and get the wood back.

6

Unfinished buildings take bonus torch damage. Mongols always rush with 2-4 spears. You’re better off finishing th wall segments. Sadly the wall segment idea requires you ve able to defend it. If all you wanted to do is delay the tower harassment, you might as well gather the gold much earlier and attempt to delete the mine before the mongol gets bounty.

Otherwise if you need the gold at all times. You have to make 2 towers in front of the gold mine like mickey mouse ears.

@grizzgolf make archers to stop mangudai.

2 Likes
7

Yep, most of the times I just finish the segments.

But the time gained is enough to collect the needed gold and to break his mental scheme.

Mongols tower rushes want to do the same things in the same order, if you break this scheme you will delay his tower rush.

Get fast to feudal and pump a few archers and the TR is over, you can get gold from other pits and destroy the tower a few minutes later.

I’m not saying is not annoying deal with a tower rush, but I don’t think is a broken strategy.

8

Its mad annoying. And super duper matchup and map spawn dependent.

Example if you’re a civ that absolutely needs gold almost all the time and both mines are forward/exposed?? That’s an auto gg.

If you’re not ottoman eng rus or mali* and attempt to play counter aggressive dark age in response to mongol tower rush, and your gold is in the front?? That’s an auto gg.

Part of the unfun apsect to tower rush is that fact that there isn’t a definitive response to stopping it. Instead, you even said it, you just have to DEAL WITH IT. IMO that’s not RTS. And it’s definitely not fun to be on the receiving end of it.

2 Likes
9

Yeah well, it’s a little unfair…
They get the Khan and his abilities in age1, doubble training spears from a passive ressource and just tower your gold.
In the moment they hit age2, they can INSTANTLY get arrowslits because their stone comes in passively.
That is the most annoying part imo, the biggest most broken advantage.
Not to mention they can go silver tree while keeping you at your tc and you almost can’t stop that.

Just pure frustration to play against that and it almost doesn’t take any skill to execute it, because you basically don’t fight but just play alone, withought having to react to the enemy, micro or fight.

This mechanic really really really has to be removed…

1 Like
10

I wouldn’t say it requieres 0 skill to do a tower rush.

You need to have a very very good tempo to be effective, otherwise you will fall too far behind and probably the game is lost.

12

Well, true, you got a point.
It does require some coordination to tower-rush an oponent as Mongol.

The problem I personally have with that strat, is that it is far easier to execute it than to deal with it.
Which shouldn’t be the case.
As I mainly play Malians, Mongols have 64.5% winratio in Conqueror against Malians, mostly due to tower pressure on pitmine, followed up by either even more pressure, mass bow/keshik age2 due to double training or a mix of that and trade behind.

Since you are tucked in in your base and struggle for getting any ressources or saving your vills and especially pitmines/houses, the Mongol can mostly feel free to trade through Silver tree.
If you step out of base to disrupt his trade, he can quite easily catch you out of position with Keshik/archer and the speed arrow of the Khan and whipe these units.
If he’s losing the fight (which shouldn’t happen), he can just run away.
Because you won’t be making Sofas so early in the game (inefficient age2 and expensive when your eco is under heavy early pressure), your army will be less mobile than his.

The houses only costing 25 wood, having a small hp pool (previously even less), doesn’t make it easier.
If the Mongol player burns them, he gets a quite significant eco-boost in early-game, which accelerates his age-up, his early Keshik batches age2 or whatever he needs the ressources for.

I’m sure Malians are not the only civ to struggle with this strategy, though they seem to be one of the easist victims.
Meanwhile Mongols have a 53.3% winratio in Conqueror level.

I don’t think the 80->70 stone/minute dark-age Ovoo nerf will change this too much.
That’s a 12.5% income nerf on the Ovoo for dark-age.

Considering the training time for spearmen, the time your villager takes to walk to the stone-vein and to build the Ovoo, you are getting your first double-batch just a few percent later than in last patch.
The double-training for spearmen costs 80 stone, which means you have to wait around ~8.5 seconds longer to get enough stone for each batch.
That’s hardly a nerf honestly… Maybe for conq3+++, not even sure about that.

1 Like
13

Well, in case of malians I would say mongols hard counter them.

There is no nerfs that can be done to mongols that would make easier to malians the match, because is a fast aggression civ and would ever go to torch your houses and pit mine.

I’d say like for english, a match against Zhu Xi is easy because longbows hard counter Zhu ge nu, but despite I admit it’s a bit “unfair” match because a civ has a direct advantage against other, I don’t think this is bad for the game, IMO there should be civs who performs better against others.

14

pointless aruging with the Coh guy, hes over his head, he want mongols nerfed
when they are the weakest civ on FFA lol

1 Like
15

Well then probably the bounty bonus for Malian houses could be reduced, as they are half the price (25W) and low hp.

16

Maybe put a tower at the moment you see a barrack? Don’t forget he needs to use 150w for barrack + 100 wood for the stone, you can put two towers with that wood, but I think one should be enough to stop him from torching your pit mine.

Then you can get to feudal with the defensive landmark.

1 Like
17

Tried that a few times.
The problem is, he rotates to the woodline or anywhere else then and garrisons a few spears in the towers.
Once he’s aged, arrowslits immediately come up and he can siege the houses.

For now, I mostly make a counter-barracks and produce Donsos while trying to age.
The last matches vs Mongols I won.
Probably because the players weren’t as good.

Thanks for the advice though!

2 Likes
18

Just seen a match where a Malian do this, put a barrack and get donsos, they are good because you can hit one time from far and kite their spears or villagers.

2 Likes
19

I am a Tower Rusher Mongols-main, and luckily come to Conqueror 1 again in season 7. Mongols currently is not OP at all I can tell you, Ottoman still very tough for Mongols, not to mention Rus and English.

1 Like
20

At conqueror level, Mongol had a 53.3% winrate last patch in 1v1, being the number 2 of all civs.
Otto was the number one but received significant nerfs, they’ll still be strong but I am sure, they won’t be number one anymore.
Number one will be Mongol now, quite surely.

Vs Otto, Mongol had 47.8% before this patch already and Otto received multiple nerfs.
I honestly can’t imagine that matchup to be heavily disfavoured for Mongol now.

We are still waiting for aoe4world statistics to update to this patch.
I swear my butt on Mongol being top1 in conqueror 1v1 this patch, winrate-wise, with a decent distance to Ayyubid, Darc and English, which will come on 2,3 and 4.

The nerf to Mongol (80-70 stone/min) in dark age is TINY.
It should not make a difference, unless it’s pro vs pro.
You lose 8.5 seconds for your first dbl batch of spears, 17 seconds for the second, 25.5 for the third.
After the 2nd or 3rd batch you should anyways be aging already.
It’s more of an extended dark age spear/horsemen spam nerf and even that is not so significant.

Ottoman being “tough” comes from Mongol comepletely DESTROYING most other civs.
Otto is one of the few matchups where Mongol actually have to play as good as the enemy to win the game…

Vs English, Mongol had 51.0% last patch, so a slight favour for Mongol.
The only disfavoured ones seemed to be Zhu XI (43.7%) and Rus (42.7%).
But what should other civs say?
They got many matchups with ~35-40% win.

Malian got 35% vs Otto and 35.5% vs Mongol.
THAT is a tough (!) matchup… more than tough honestly.

Mongol is, after all, too strong and too easy to abuse (tower rush/trade) when just starting to learn the civ.

1 Like
21

The Mongol nerf is not that tiny as u think. Before I had a build order to age to feudal, while stable is up too and 2 times double produce keshiks. U got 200 stone just about the first 2 keshiks come out. Now u have to wait like 1min for next double keshiks.
The same thing with towerrush. You did like 2x spearman, spearman, 2x spearman. Now the 2nd 2x spearman can’t queue up immediately after the one finished. At least I had this in a game I was testing it. But maybe I ###### sth up, dunno exactly.

1 Like