The campaigns are garbage

I honestly don’t know how that’s happening unless you’re just letting them go and they are kitting them back into more of them with like no upgrades.

Did you try play them in easy mode? Like maybe you are very unskilled that’s all - no offense.

I think devs should be focus on more important stuff for the game.

Hey, @Chesqin :slight_smile: I don’t know, whether you have read this topic, but I did a quick summary of players feedback about AI kiting+dodging. I have seen plenty of people criticise it on Discord, Reddit and these forums, so this issue certainly needs to be addressed somehow. Ideally it would be possible to somehow turn it off regardless of difficulty level, so that player can enjoy playing with new smarter AI without it having inhuman annoying micro.

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The op is obviously a low-skill player, but I dont see why hard campaigns are hard. I loved the new difficulty. It makes you play the strengths of the factions. No campaign is unbeatable, you just don’t want to dedicate time and thought to it tbh.

This post here is the reason so many AAA games made these days are dumbed down so far that they turn out mundane and basic making them boring

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Sorta what happens.

Yet, it micros skirms better than freaking Viper

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there’s a difference between making a game challenging and making it so only pros are able to play it properly
many games like starcraft 2 are easily able to make the game challenging without making the AI have godlike micro skills
when u play the starcraft 2 campaign at normal dific u start with the game being pretty easy so u catch up with how the game and units work, what they are for and stuff, and then later on in the campaign it slowly starts to get harder and harder, and that’s all on normal, on brutal u already start to struggle even in some of the early missions, aka fit for players who are more hardcore and want an actual challenge.
but in AoE2 DE we pretty much have players that never played a RTS game facing archers that are microed so perfectly they beat an equal amount of skirmishers that are supposed to be their counters. this is far from being fair or intuitive.
and that not to talk about AoE1 DE’s first babylon campaign’s mission

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I am not pro by any means and I have completed Vlad’s and the new Khans campaigns on hard difficulty. So its definitely the OP’s problem and not the game’s.

AFAIK, Vlad is nerfed in DE and is made way easier.

So your argument is not so valid.

The problem with the AI is mostly its Viper-level micro on archers, skirms and galleons.
And I think it’s very good, but if there’s an option to let us control this behavior it will be way better.

Generally, the AI on campaigns acts better than what it uses on the same difficulty on a standard game. (Maybe because it’s usually on a higher age when starting the campaign)

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The reason why you feel that their is a huge difference between AI Micro in Singleplayer and AI Micro in the campaigns is that as far as i am aware all the campagins use AI scripts made for the certain mission.

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I see, thanks for the clarification.

pretty much go monks and convert the cannon galleons and target the rams with the converts

Welp, there is actually ONE good thing about the AI’s archer micro: they will have a tendency to all fend for themselves instead of focus-firing. So the trick is to divide your swordsmen/cavalry in small groups and send them to different archers, and they will just chip away at some of your units, get killed super-fast, and you will soon outnumber them

I see you think the game is too hard! Here’s a tip:

Git gud

Well, yeah, that’s absolutely right: I don’t want to play a single mission for 3 hours sometimes because the AI is not resigning and rebuilds its base 50 meters away from the last one. I also don’t want to keep retrying missions because the usual tactics don’t work and you have to figure weird ■■■■ out to beat the odds. I also don’t want to retry missions simply because the game is not giving me enough information so I have to waste at least one try for simply scouting the map without paying attention to the objective.

And sure, if you enjoy all those things then cool, more power to you but personally I consider all of that to be a huge waste of my time. I’d love the pacing of the game to be snappier and the mission structure to be more streamlined, some examples on how to do that:

  • more hints / scout reports: tell me things I should know, for example that the AI will start building a wonder so it won’t come as a surprise to me and I can prepare.

  • more map information: at least give me the locations of the enemy bases and places of interest from the get go (and not just in hints, we have a map, devs, why not use it?)

  • there’s so many empty space on the hud when nothing’s selected so how about displaying the unique techs of your chosen civ there?

  • give me the option to select all military units with one button press so that I could quickly stop my units from chasing archers to the end of the map / into the enemy base.

And really when it comes to campaign difficulty I think that what AoK / AoC offered was just fine as a basis. Sure, you can have an “extreme” difficulty option or something like that but this “look, this campaign has 3 swords next to it so it’s gonna be hard as ■■■■ on standard too” approach is just stupid. I’m playing videogames since the early 90s and I’m sure that if I simply had as much time as I did when I was kid then I’d appreciate the added challenge more but nowadays I prefer if I don’t have to restart stuff that much so I can just progress.

You know, let the guy complete the mission on normal and if he likes the game enough he’ll replay it on a higher difficulty anyway, no? I know that it’s a different genre but for example I’m playing Halo Reach now and I enjoy heroic difficulty greatly, it can be challenging but it’s fair so I’ll replay the game on legendary when I have the time because I really like the gameplay loop. I mean sure, when I was kid I played harder stuff and I could waste days trying to complete Castlevania or the original Prince of Persia but those games were short so the devs had to do something to make them feel longer. Age 2 DE has around 300 hours of content though, it truly is a very ambitious and gargantuan game…

The other thing is that well, not everybody could master the game back in the day simply because they played other stuff and that can have an effect on your enjoyment. For example I love playing Quake Champions, I think mechanically it’s the best freakin’ FPS ever created but it was designed for people who know how to play Quake and that shows on the player numbers. I can’t get my friends to play it with me because they can’t strafe jump, they don’t know the basics of map control or how to track properly and stuff like that so they are getting absolutely destroyed online. Because of this the game was simply unable to attract new players, it’s just too dam hard to get going if you don’t have prior experience with the franchise. Age 2 has a campaign and if properly balanced that could solve this issue so that more people could jump into online after completing them and “getting gud”.

I was taking you seriously until you said Quake champions is mechanically the best FPS ever made. It seems like you want a dumbed down short campaign missions like the plethora of moba-rts hybrids out there for AOE. New campaigns and the AI do different things, similar to a real player, they build wonders, they rebuild town centers and migrate to places. You can make all that very easy by killing villagers in raids and then revealing the map through the castle upgrade when you have enough gold and their villagers are down. I find the difficulty of the new campaigns and scripting to give a good challenge and I definitely dont want them to change that, no matter how much lazy people are being loud on the internet. RTS games are not meant to be easy, especially games like AOE, that have actual depth.

Also, Quake champions did not fail to attract players because of difficulty. It’s because it’s a bad game with 0 depth, unbalanced characters, and bad maps. I knew it very well, I was playing it since beta until I decided to uninstall it and label it as junk.

Well, then guess you’re the perfect example of the guy who should not be listened to since the fact that QC made something that was absolutely inaccessible to new players slightly more accessible (and absolutely not accessible enough in my opinion) already made you quit a game that’s basically nothing more than a better paced and mechanically sharper version of Quake 3 / Quake Live. Did it feel bad that now that noobs have a chance to pick up the better weapons in TDM they can shoot you now? :smiley: The active and passive abilities - you know, the ones that everyone can use, even you - ruined your pride? :smiley:

I don’t get it, I mean why would you care that something you’re already good at is more accessible to new and returning players? You want every game to end like Quake Live with two dozen people playing it because the playerbase simply got old? Age of Empires 2 is no different in that regard sadly, a game that’s been alive for the longest time can die if most of the playerbase is pushing 40 instead of 20. I wouldn’t play Quake Live these days because playing the same people over and over again just got boring, dude, it’s a “senior game” now while QC at least can reach 1000 concurrent players on a good day.

1000 players for a competitive FPS with the name ‘quake’ on it shows that it’s a bad game. The game is not inaccessible, it’s a free to play game. People dont play it because its a bad game. Not because it’s hard.

Yes, dividing cavalry between enemy ranged units is pretty much required to chase all those annoying kiters down. It is kind of a mini-game at end of battle after dealing with enemy melee units. It takes disproportionately large amount of time and effort when compared to fighting with enemy melee units.

I’d love the pacing of the game to be snappier and the mission structure to be more streamlined, some examples on how to do that:

more hints / scout reports: tell me things I should know, for example that the AI will start building a wonder so it won’t come as a surprise to me and I can prepare.

more map information: at least give me the locations of the enemy bases and places of interest from the get go (and not just in hints, we have a map, devs, why not use it?)

So… you just want to be lead by a hand throughout the whole mission. Wow. Such good. So player. Especially the second point is incredibly stupid - that’s why you always scout your map! They give you a map, go and discover it!

I’m one of the suckiest players that played any game ever. I have never played any game competitively, only casually and for fun. I’m not good at any build orders (though I’m also a new player in AoE2 and kinda know some stuff already). The campaigns are not harder, except for maybe some AIs being more active/clever about their units (Saladin 2 was a teeny bit harder and I had to actually restart that one because teal’s activity surprised me that much). I’m playing them all on Standard and it’s really fine. You can’t really steamroll them, but that’s absolutely ok and very good actually.