The civs, that remain with "0/weak" eco bonuses and need a small eco buff

Now and after we got the May patch, I just want to discuss the remaining civs that don’t have any eco bonuses and my suggestions to them.


Many people will say Magyars are fine, and have best scouts, CA, UU and bla bla bla…but I am not talking here about only arabia, I am talking about a general situation and eco stats, so Magyars may need an eco bonus as other 30 civs who have it already, my suggestion:

Hunting animals provide +30% food.


Some of you will say they build 30% faster but of course it is a meh except in castle drops and Trush, mu suggestion:

Researching every eco upgrade provied 50% gold for food eco upgrade

Example: double bit axe cost 100 food, 75 wood, if the Spanish player research it he will get 50 gold (50% of food cost for the double bit axe).


sigh…I hate this civ, i hate playing against it, and i hate playing with it, and i hate it’s stupid UU and stupid UTs, but Goths one of those few civs who remains with “0” eco bonuses, maybe you will say they have loom and +15 but still meh.

My suggestion:

-Goths start with 50 room pop cap available.
-No more have the instant loom.
-Barracks cost -25% wood.


Well actually IMO they are fine but their team bonus is stupied, so i suggest:

-Reasearching farm upgrades add food instantly to farms even after being build.

And a free bonus for only them: farmers carry +5.


Yeah they have +10% faster vills but still meh bonus, my suggestion:

Villagers speed move +10% dark, +15% feudal, +20% castle. Or start from dark age with +15% and no more in other ages.

Now I only will talk about those, yeah there still some civs like Saracens, Koreans, Portuguese and Bulgarians don’t have that powerful eco, but those civs have powerful military discounts and powerful UUs especially Bulgarians, but Koreans will remain the weakest but I don’t want to talk about them now, and about Saracens they have a great market but it still a market so it is not free and it is only good early feudal and early castle for sick Yolo pushes strats but I don’t want to touch them now.

So what do you think about the other 5 civs above (Magyars, Incas, Spanish, Berbers and Goths) ?

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Civs dont need a eco bonus to be competetive if they have other bonuses that are good. all the civs you mentioned are pretty balanced, most even above average

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Don’t have an eco bonus, but are balanced. Magyars are a bit below average, but berbers are completely fine.
Some people count a discount to a major line also an eco bonus.

Faster Building is an eco bonus. Still they are maybe the only civ in your list which could receive a small buff.

They get basically 1 extra vill once the enemy researches loom. The only thing that could be changed is to give some at least a little bit diversity in eschange for less lategame spam.

Have literally 4 small eco bonusses. They aren’t the best eco civ, but their eco is more than solid.

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Interesting idea. Maybe I’d tweak their current population bonus to +5% of the total max pop available starting from Dark Age. So if the game is 200 pop, goths start the game with extra 10 pop space (and can go up to total of 210 that way), that way sending the laming villager would be less of a setback

Problem for Spanish is that they kind of experienced a negative power creep. Tower rushes got nerfed (via less tower HP with release of DE), and Conqs got nerfed due to getting Cavalry Archer armor class (this thematically makes sense, since they’re basically a kind of CA) but never really got anything in return. The civ was considered a strong one in AoC. (I know, I know, Missionaries got some buff, but that unit is still pretty much only ever made for the memes)

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Not every civ needs strong eco bonus. Sometimes good military bonus can push them to the competitive edge (e.g. Bulgarians).

an eco bonus is essential so that civs are good on proper RM maps instead of just being 1-trick-ponies

unless you want to to give every civ military bonuses for every single type of unit (including navy units), an eco bonus is the only way towards balance for real RM gameplay (not just arabia spam)

Well Magyars don’t need an eco bonus to be an absolute menace on maps like land madness or atacama, Berbers don’t need any to be top tier on gold rush for instance.


And what is the special for Berbers to be top tier in gold rush map?!

Probs the good mobility, and the cheaper cav cost is nice to spam more cav without needing the middle.

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What is no eco bonus?

Goths have instant loom researched. So they can be up 25 seconds earlier or go up at the same time, but with an extra vill. That seems to me an eco bonus.

Spanish dont pay gold for blacksmith upgrades, which is also an eco upgrade, since it saves gold in the long run. There TG bonus also gives their team more gold, so this is an eco bonus for team games as well.

So it looks like some civs in your list do have an eco bonus. I havent the game open and i dont know the full tech tree of the other civs. Maybe equal statements can be made about the other civs as well.

Also: Why do every team need to have an eco bonus? As long as each civ will end up with a win rate about 50%, then it is fine to me. There is no need that every civ need to have an eco bonus to me…


You can say the same for Portoguese tho

Berber bonus still lets you save more res overall and you get camels to counter other knight civs. Even genitours are useful in case the enemy tries to camp the center with archers

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Eco bonus means something you get the benefit from it in early/late/all-time in the game and at any map in general. It is not a discount for military/military-upgrades. Ask Hera why did he make Magyars and Spanish D tier civs

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The only thing is that it is nowatdays hard to get 50 % with no eco bonus. Like you see with the mentioned Portuguese. They have the best offensive military bonus with that gold discount, but they have a hard time to bring it into play, lacking a good eco.

I would like to see a lot of civs with no eco bonus having winrates above 50 %, but atm it’s just berbers because of the insane discount they receive. Some say it’s an eco bonus, too.
It’s pretty obvious that other civs with no eco bonus have a hard time to compete with that.

This + free meele attack upgrades + cheap light cavalry…
oh god no.


I disagree. Every competitive civ has a good early eco bonus.

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Except this is false. Bulgarians were trash before the discount on blacksmith and siege

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But the discount on those techs isn’t really an eco bonus, in the sense that it doesn’t really improve your economy. For instance in a boom situation this discount does nothing for you, for a rush taking blacksmith upgrades is more viable for them but paying for half cost upgrades is still more expensive than not taking them at all like other civs do. So it ends up being more of a military bonus.

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These were literally the military bonus I was talking about. Not just the free militia.
Also, I wouldn’t call Bulgarians “trash” before this. Sure they were a bit weak.

I consider it military bonus if I get value by making military units and fighting.

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